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Bringing ilakkiyam to the pAmaran

Topic started by aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on Mon Jan 26 19:53:29 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Responses:

• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Mon Jan 26 20:04:18 EST 1998
  
  I was thinking about this for a long time. Wanted to start a
  thread on this this topic but withheld because I thought that
  this a real research topic and hence I wasn't sure of participation.
  But in another thread (kaNNadhAsan vs. vairamuththu) the
  following discussion ensued and I thought it is right time to
  start this thread. Friends, please contribute however miniscule
  it might be.
  
  
  *************************************************
  * From: Sundar Ramanathan (@ 202.54.10.84) on: Sun Jan 25 01:01:37 EST
  1998
  
  kanchana...
  
  pasuvidam kandru vandhu paalarundhum - adhu
  paalarum pOdhaa kaaLai varum
  
  is based on a 'kochchai' pazhamozhi
  from south tn. villages
  kannadasan infuses a great amount of kaviththuvam
  besides cloaking it in dignity
  without diluting its 'saaramsam'
  
  even while he has diluted, as in the case of
  
  semmaNNilE thaNNIraip pOl
  undaana bandham idhu
  
  (or)
  
  unnai naan paarkkum bOdhu
  maNNai nee paarkkindraayE
  
  it does not sound patchy
  as in vairamuthu's 'naRumugaiyE'
  * From: Kanchana (@ ww-tp02.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jan 25 09:07:43 EST
  1998
  
  Sundar:
  Agree with your point on kaNNadhAsan's presentation of concepts from
  sangakAla ilakkiyam as well as maNNvAsanai mozhigaL with equal dignity.
  His unnai nAn pArkkum pOdhu charaNam is derived from the kuRaL
  yAn nOkkungAl nilanOkkum nOkkAkkAl
  thAnOkki mella nagum. Correct?
  
  kaNadhAsan's chemmaNNilE idea is borrowed from the same kuRundhogaip
  pAdal Vairamuththu's naRumugaiyE borrows from. But, Vairamuththu's
  charaNam starting with yAyum gnAyum yAr AgiyarO sounds patchy because
  he took the kuRundhogaip pAdal, "spliced" it, and inserted his own
  lines in the middle--changaththamizhum vairaththamizhum "chembulap
  peyal neer pOlak" kalakka mudiyumA? :-)
  The original kuRundhogai lines as I can recall:
  yAyum gnAyum yAr AgiyarO
  endhaiyum nundhaiyum emmuRaik kELir
  yAnum neeyum evvazhi aRidhum
  chembulap peyalneer pOla
  anbudai nenjamthAm kalandhanavE
  
  * From: Bhaskar (@ ww-tp06.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Jan 25 23:07:51 EST
  1998
  
  Kanchana:
  
  I am loosing on your above post. Which is the ChemmaNNile song and
  movie of Kannadasan and What is this kuRundhogaip pAdal and by whom it
  is written.
  
  I have heard that MD's steal bits and pieces of tunes from various
  sources but even the lyrics *^%&%(@, seems very intersting :-))
  
  * From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ synergy.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Jan 26 00:47:44
  EST 1998
  
  Sundar R & Kanchana:
  
  An addition to your list of ideas nicely borrowed by
  Kannadhasan from the classics:
  
  aththikkaai kaai kaai aalangkaai veNNilavE (Bale Pandiya)
  
  from the following seyyuL from Thanip paadal ThiRattu:
  
  aththikkaai kaai kaai aalangkaai veNNilavE
  iththikkaai kaayndhu unakku enna payan - patrillaa
  avaraikkaai kOvaikkaai avadhiyuRum paavaikkaai
  angumingum thoodhu vazhangaai
  
  Meaning of this seyyuL: (see PPP for details)
  http://www.cadcam.nus.sg/~mpessk/ppp/kann7.html
  
  oru pOr veeranin manaivi avaL. pOr kaLam sendra
  thanadhu thalaivan innum thirumbaadhadhai eNNi varundhugiRaaL.
  appOdhu nilavu kaayndhu koNdirukkiRadhu. thOttaththil
  palavagaik kaaygaL kaayththu kulungi niRkindrana.
  
  avaL thalaivanai ninaikkiRaaL. avanai pOrukku
  anuppivaiththa mannar meedhu kObam koLgiRaaL.
  mannavanin seyalai ninaikkiRaaL. nilavai paarkkiRaaL.
  nilavidam sollugiRaaL:
  
  visham pOla kaaygindra veNNilaavE! naan vasikkum
  indha thisaiyil kaaya vENdaam. en thalaivan irukkum
  thisai nOkki kaay. en meedhu konjamum piriyamillaadha
  thalaivarai kaai. avarai pOrukku anuppi enadhu
  pirivu thunbaththai neettiththa mannavarin meedhu
  kaai. pirivaal varundhum indha Ezhai peNNukkaaga
  avaridam thoodhu selvaayaaga.
  
  * From: Kanchana (@ ww-te06.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jan 26 14:35:54 EST
  1998
  
  Keerthi:
  I think that cheyyuL was written by kALamEgam.
  
  Bhaskar:
  Will share with you my limited knowledge of the "fundamentals of
  ancient thamizh literature" separately, since I know you are genuinely
  interested.
  
  * From: pg (@ gate02.merck-medco.com) on: Mon Jan 26 15:35:11 EST 1998
  
  An offshoot :
  
  Has any sithar pAdal been used in a Tamil movie ? Directly or derived ?
  Pattinathar (hero:TMS) had sithar pAdalgal, I know.
  
  There is a famous pAdal :
  
  nandhavanathil or ANdi - avan
  nAlAru mAdhamAi kuyavanai vENdi
  koNdu vandhan oru thONdi - adhai
  koothAdi koothAdi pOttudaithANdi.
  
  I have a feeling this song has appeared in a movie.
  
  Also KK has also 'stolen' a lot of his ideas on sithar pAdalgal. For
  ex. 'veedu varai uravu' is based on a pattinathar pAdal. Any other
  songs ?
  **************************************************
  
  Thanks to a friend, I got a chance to read kaNNadhAsan's
  arththamuLLa indhumadham. The books made me puke but there were
  some great quotations from kambar, avvai, etc. and some idiotic
  poems from pattinaththAr (eventhough some of his were good). As
  pg says kaNNadhAsan vIdu varai vuRavu is a simplification of
  one of pattinaththAr's veNba. Maybe I will post it tomorrow. But the
  thing that surprised me was kaNNadhAsan's song
  
  thUkkam un kaNgaLaith thazhuvattumE
  amaidhiyun nenjil nilavattumE - andhath
  thUkkamum amaidhiyum nAnAnAl ...
  
  were literal translations of three lines from Romeo And Juliet.
  Can someone post those lines please?
  
  More later,
  aruLarasan.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tp02.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jan 26 20:31:12 EST 1998
  
  aruLarasan:
  The lines from Romeo and Juliet from which thookkam un kaNNgaLai runs as follows these lines by Juliet:
  Good night, good night! parting is such sweet sorrow,
  That I shall say good night till it be morrow.
  Romeo replies:
  Sleep dwell upon thine eyes, peace in thy breast!
  Would I were sleep and peace, so sweet to rest!
  Identical lines, aren't they?
  
  
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tp02.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jan 26 20:36:05 EST 1998
  
  Oops, please read my first line as:
  "The lines in Romeo & Juliet, from which thookkam un kaNgaLai borrows, follow these lines by Juliet: " Apologies.
  
  
• From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Mon Jan 26 21:04:05 EST 1998
  
  The lines from Romeo and Juliet are so beautiful
  that it tempts others to borrow it. In the movie
  Ambikaapathy starring MKTBhagavathar A'pathy
  speaks the following dialogue to Amaravathy in
  moonlight background:
  
  thookkam un kaNgaLai thazhuvattum
  saantham un manadhil nilavattum
  andha thookkamum saanthamum naanaanaal!
  
  Kannadhasan borrowed the lines later for A'MaNi.
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ ww-ta02.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jan 26 23:28:09 EST 1998
  
  Keerthi,
  
  Excellent observation! eppadi pudikireenga indha maadiri cut and paste :-)))
  
  Indha paatai padithadhum enakku thookkam varudhu :-) see you tomorrow.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tb05.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jan 26 23:46:26 EST 1998
  
  kuRundhogai
  
  yAyum gnAyum yAr AgiyarO
  endhaiyum nundhaiyum emmuRik kElir?
  yAnum neeyum evvazhi aRidhum?
  chembulap peyalneer pOla
  anbudai nenjamthAm kalandhanavE
  
  Meaning & setting for this kuRundhogaippAdal: azhagiya iLaignan oruvanum ezhilarasiyAna peNNoruththiyum malaichchAralil sandhiththu manam ondRupadugiRargaL. vidai peRum nEram nerunga, thalaivi mugam vAda, mugakkuRippu aRindha thalaivan siriththuk koNdE avaL manam kalangAdhirukkak kooRuvadhu ippAdal.
  unnaip petRRavaLum ennaip petRavaLum yArO? en thandhhaiyum un thandhaiyum evvidhaththilum naNbargaLum illai. neeyum nAnum idhaRku mun oruvaraiyoruvar aRindhu koNdadhumillai. irundhum chemmaN nilaththil peidha mazhaineer ammaNNodu kalandhu, ammaNNin niRam peRuvadhu pOl nam anbu nenjangaL irandaRak kalandhanavE endru adhisayikkiRAn thaaivan.
  
  Vairamuththu borrowed the entire verse, modified some words, inserted more lines and made it into a verse for naRumugaiyE in Iruvar.
  
  kaNNadhAsan used the last two lines as cited by Sundar above:
  chemmaNNilE thaNNeeraip pOl
  uNdAna bandham idhu
  
  kaNNadhAsan also uses the 3rd and 5th lines in the following verse in VAzhkkaip Padagu:
  nEtru varai nee yArO nAn yArO
  indRu mudhal nee vERO nAn vERO
  this very same song employs the kaNNodu kuRaL as mentioned above.
  
  kuRaL
  
  kaNNodu kaNNinai nOkkokkin vAichchoRkaL
  enna payanu(m) mila.
  
  Meaning: thalaivanin kaNNgaLum thalaiviyin kaNNgaLum sandhikkum pOdhu vArththaigaL vENduvadhillai.
  
  A 1960's song by vAli(?) from Yaar Nee uses the idea as follows:
  pArvai ondRE pOdhumE
  pallAiyiram sol vENdumA?
  
  Another 60's song by kaNNadhAsan from Kodimalar uses it slightly differently :
  mounamE pArvaiyAl oru pAttup pAda vENdum
  nANamE jAdaiyAl oru vArththai pEsa vENdum
  and
  muththuchcharamE nee pakkam irundhAl
  vERenna vArththai solla mozhi vENdum
  
  A 90's song "en mEl vizhundha mazhaiththuLiyE" from May Madham by Vairamuththu uses the same idea thus:
  kaNNum kaNNum pEsikkoNdAl
  vArththai oomai Ai vidumO
  
  kambarAmAyaNam
  
  Lots to quote. Will just do one now.
  
  kadan pattAr nenjam
  
  The concept is used by kaNNadhAsan for a lighter situation in the song "appappA nAn appanalladA" from kalAtta kalyANam:
  kadankAran vandhAl kalangAdha nenjam
  adangAdha piLLai azhudhAlE anjum :-)
  
  Part of a cheyyuL by ????
  
  nettiruppup pAraikku nekkuvidAp pARai
  pasumarath(u) ANikku nekkuvidum
  
  Meaning: A hard rock which will not yield to (or split by) a crowbar will yield to the roots of a tender plant (and crack).
  
  Vairamuththu loves this idea. He has used it at least twice so far.
  In Duet's "mettup pOdu" song:
  pARaikkuL vERaip pOlE vetRi koLga
  
  In nErukku nEr's "manam virumbudhE" song:
  malainAttuk karumARai mElE
  thalai kAttum siRu poovaip pOlE
  pollAdha iLam kAdhal poothadhadi
  
  Question: The following idea is the same in TFM, but I can't recall the source--has to be some aganAnooRu pAdal judging by the content. It's about how the heroine is pining away for the hero so much that her slim waist has slimmed down even more, making her "mEgalai" (ottiyANam) loose.
  
  kaNNadhAsan uses it in "thoodhu sella oru thOzhi illaiyenath thuyar kOndAyO thalaivi" song from Pachchai viLakku thus:
  idaiyaNi mEgalai nazhuvidum vaNNam
  
  Vairamuththu uses it in "naRumugaiyE" from Iruvar thus:
  idaiyil mEgalai irukkavillai
  
  More later........
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ ww-ta02.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Jan 26 23:47:40 EST 1998
  
  aruL:
  
  Indha topic start seidhadahrkku mikka nandri.
  
  Kanchana:
  
  Indha topic-la Konjam tamizh ilakkiyam fundamentals sonnenganna unga previous posting-aa ennal purindhu kolla mudiyum, I am sure that there are lot more people in this TFM DF who would enjoy the tamizh ilakkiyam intro.
  
  I like this song so much that I wonder sometimes of the possible meaning this song can have ! it fits exactly into the movie situation, but will fit into many many situations too... such is the power of the bizzare tamizh language :-)
  
  Movie: Annai
  Lyric: Kannadhasan
  Music: Sudarsanam
  Released: 1962 by AVM Pictures.
  
  Poovagi kaayagi kanidha maram onru
  Poovaamal kaikkaamal kidandha maram onru
  Kindandha maram onru
  
  Kaaikkadha marathadiyil mElaaru paayudhada
  Kanindhu vitta chinna maram kanneril vaadudhada
  Kanneril vaadudhada
  
  Pettredukka manam irundhum pillai kani illai
  Pettredutha mara kilaikku mattra sugam illai
  
  Thuttramenum paravai ellam kudi irukkum veettil
  Thottil katti thalattum paeru mattum illai
  
  Poovaagi kaayagi ...
  
  Vaendum yaendru kaettpavarukku illai illai enbaar
  Veruppavarkkum maruppavarkkum alli alli tharuvaar
  Aandavanin thiru ullathai yaar arindhaar kanne
  Yaar vayitril yaar pirappar yaar arivaar kanne
  Yaar arivaar kanne
  
  Poovaagi kaayagi ...
  
  
  
  Keerthi, indha paadal ungal PPPyil illenaa post seidhudunga. Romba arumayaana paadal. Sila words incorrectaa irukkalam, thiruthividungal.
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ ww-ta02.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jan 27 00:18:24 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana:
  
  Enna coincidence paartheengala, neenga 23:46 ukku post seidhu irukeenga, naan 23:47 ungalai post seiyyungannu kaettu irukkaen. Ungal posting-ukku enadhu manamaRandha nanri. Naan naalaikku dhaan padikka pOraen, appodhaan konjamaavadhu thalaiyila yaerum :-) ippo nijamaavae thookkam varudhu.
  
  Good Night (: KaN ullae sendru vittadhu.
  
  
• From: Manisegaran (@ wmu-51-45.tm.net.my) on: Tue Jan 27 13:00:39 EST 1998
  
  The song Nanthavanathil Ore Aandi is sung by TMS in ARASILANKUMARI for MGR in a nanthavanam(MD is GRamanathan) Desam Gnanam Kalvi Eesan Poosai Ellam Kasumun Sellathadi kuthambai kasumun sellathadi (CSJ in Parasakthy) and Manathottam Pothum Enru Mayavanar Kodutha udal Panathottam Pottathenadi, Muthama Panathottam Pottathenadi(TMS in Panathottam)also follow the Sithar Padal trend.
  
  The Kurunthogai paadal yAyum gnAyum yAr Agiyaro is also copied in a film called Sowkkadi Chandrakantha(MD is G.Ramanathan)It is sung by PB Sreenivos and P.Suseela.It goes:
  PBS=nAanum neeym Yaro Evaro
  Evvitham Sernthom Ithu Enna Puthiro
  Neelavan Mele Nilavithu Pole
  PS=Neerin Mel Naan Alliyai Pole
  PBS=Ninaive Unmele Mariyathale
  PS=Ithanai Meethe Naam Iru Kan Pole....
  But the idea of including ilakkiyam in Tamil films go to the early days. Thiruvalluvar says
  "Mayir Neeppin Vazhak Kavarimaan Annar Uyir Neepin Maanam Varin" In the film Nalla Thangal of 1935 Vidvan Paramakkudi Sivaramalingam Pillai has written a song that reads" Oru Romam Ponalum Kavarimaan Uyir Valathu"
  But Theninum Inikkum Ilakkiyathai the Great KANNADASANAI pol nobody simplified for the ordinary pamararkal. Let me see to what extent I can quote a few FOR the moment.
  
  1.In the Akalikai Padalam of Kambaramayanam there is a description as follows;
  "Ivvannam Nigalntha Vannam
  Iniyintha Ulaguk Kellam
  Uibvannam Anri Matror
  Thuivannam Uruva thundo?
  Maivannath(thu) Arakki Poril
  Mazhai Vannath(thu) Anna Leyun
  Kaivannam Anguk Kanden
  Kaalvannam Inguk Kanden"
  
  KANNADASAN has used this in the film PASAM(MD Mellisai Mannarkal) as follows;
  
  PBS-Paal Vannam Paruvam Kandu
  Vel Vannam Vizhigal Kandu
  Maan Vannam Naan Kandu Vaadukiren
  
  PS-Kan Vannam Angey Kanden
  Kai Vannam Ingey Kanden
  Pen Vannam Noi Kondu Vadukiren
  
  Kannam Minnum Mangai Vannam
  Unthan Munnum Vantha Pinnum
  Alli Alli Nenjil Vaikka Aasai Illaiya?..
  Kar Vanna Koonthal Thottu
  Ner Vanna Meni Thottu
  Poo Vannap Paadam Solla Ennam Illaiya?
  
  PBS-Manjal Vanna Veyil Pattu
  Konjum Vanna Vanji Chittu
  Anji Anjik Kenjum Pothu Aasai Illaiya?......."
  
  2.In the Ulaviyat Padalam of the same Kambaramayanam we read the following;-
  
  "Thol Kandar Thole Kandar
  Thodugazhat Kamalan Anna
  Thaal Kandar
  Thale Kandar
  Thadakkai Kandarum Athey!
  Vaalkonda Knaar Yaro
  Vadivinai Mudikka Kandar
  Oozhalkonda Samayath Thannan
  Uruvukan darai Yothar"
  
  KANNADASAN has used the style in Ithaya Kamalam(MD is KVM) sung by PBSeenivos and hummed by P.Suseela as follows:
  
  "Thol Kanden Thole Kanden
  Tholiliru Kilikal Kanden
  Vaal Kanden Vaale Kanden
  Vattamidum Vizhigal Kanden"
  
  3. Let us now look at the Bakthi Kaala Padalkal. Thirunaavukkarasar sang as follows;-
  
  "Munnam Avanudaiya Namang Ketten
  Moorthy Avanirukku Vannam Kettal
  Pinnai Avanudaiya Aaroor Kettal
  Peyarthum Avanukkey Pichhi Yaanal
  Annaiyum Ath Thanaiyum Anre Neethal
  Agandraal Akalidathaar Aasa rathaith
  Thannai Maranthaal Thannamang Kettaal
  Thalaippattaal Nangai Thalaivanthaney!"
  
  KANNADASAN has modified this song in Kudumbath Thalaivan (MD is KVM)sung by P.Suseela as follows:
  
  "Anroru Naal Avanudaiya Perai Ketten
  Adutha Naalil Avanirukkum OOrai Ketten
  Indru Varai Avan Mugathai Naanm Kaanen
  Avan Ennai Thedi Varum Varaikkum Vidavum Matten"
  
  4. In Thiruppavai we see Sri Aandaal's song as follows:
  
  "Kuthu Vilakkeriyak Kottukkaal Kattilmel
  Methalar Poonguzhal Nappinnai Kongaimel
  Vaithukkidantha Malarmaarba! Vai Thiravai;
  Maithadang Kanninaai! Nee Un Manaalanai
  Ethanai Pothum Thuyilezha Ottaikaan
  Ethanai Yelum Pirivaatra killamal
  Thathuvam ANdru Thagavalo Rembavai.."
  
  KANNADASAN has modified and simplified this for Pachai Vilakku(MD -Mellisai Mannarkal) sung by P. Suseela and TMS as follows:-
  
  Kuthu Vilakkeriya
  Koodamengum Poo Manakka
  Methai Virithirukka
  Melliyalaal Kathirukka..
  Vaarathirupparo Vannamalar Kannavavan
  Serathiruppano Sithirap Poombavai Thannai"
  
  5. In the same Thiruppavai we see the following song;-
  
  "Oruthi Maganaippiranthu, Oriravil
  Oruthi Maganai Olithu Valara
  Thirikkila Naagith Thantheengu Niraintha
  Karuthaip Pizhaithuk Kanjan Vayitril
  Neruppenna Ninra Nedumaaley!......"
  
  KANNADASAN modified this for CID Raju i.e MGR in Thai Sollai Thattathey(MD is KVM)sung by P.Suseela as follows:
  
  "Oruthi Makanai Piranthavanaam
  Uruvil Azhagai Valarnthavanaam
  Oruthi Manathil Nirainthavanaam
  Uyiril Uyirai Kalanthavanaam
  
  Ulagathan Ragasiyam Arinthavanaam
  Ullathin Ragasiyam Therinthavanaam
  Pazhagum VithamumPurinthavanaam
  Paarkum Paarvayil Thelinthavanaam
  Ilayaval Mugathai Paarthavanaam
  Ithayathai Avalidam Koduthanaam
  Azhagiyai Aruginil Azhaithanaam
  Aasayil Avanai Anaithanaam
  
  Saathiram Sarithiram Padithavanaam
  Thavaru Seipavanai Pidipavanaam
  Rathiri Pagalai Alaibavanaam
  Ragasiya Police Sevaganaam"
  
  6.In what is said to be the Kamban Thanippadal Thiratttu we learn of the following lines:
  
  "Maavurangina Pullurangina vandurangina Thandalai Kavurangina Enganmaaniru Kannurangilal Aiyago
  Kovurangu Kadaithalaikula Deepavallaiku Thattivai
  Aavurangu Pugarasanjala! Vanjalenna Adukkume.."
  
  KANNADASAN has used this form in Thai Sollai Thattathey sung by P.Suseela as follows:
  
  "Poo Uranguthu Pozhuthum Uranguthu
  Nee Urangavvillai Nilave
  Kaan Uranguthu Katrum Uranguthu
  Naan Urangavillai-Naan Urnagavillai
  
  Maan Uranguthu Mayilum Uranguthtu
  Manam Urangavillai-En
  Vazhi Urnaguthu Mozhiyum Uranguthu
  Vizhi Urangavillai
  
  Thenralile Enathu Udal Theinthathu Paathi-Athu
  Thindrathellam Poga Ingey Iruppathu Meethi
  Thingal Neeyum Penkulamum Oruvagai Jathi
  Therinthirunthun Kolla Vathai Ennadi Neethi?
  
  7.In Vivega Chintamani We see the following song:
  
  "Sangu Muzhakkun Thamilnaadan
  Thannai ninaintha Pothellam
  Pongu Kadalum Urangathu
  Pozhuthor Naalum Vidiyathu
  Thingal Urangum Pullurangum
  Thendral Urangum Silakaalam
  Engum Urangum Irakkalam
  En Kann Irandum Urangathey"
  
  KANNADASAN has used the style in SAngali Thevan film song (MD is T.G.Lingappa) sung by TMS and P.Leela.Leela starts as follows:
  
  "Thendral urangida koodumadi- enthan Sinthai Urangathu
  Puvi Engum Urangida Koodumadi-Enthan
  Kankal Urangathu..
  Neela Kadala Alai odi Varuvathil Nenjam Pari Koduppen- Indru Kodi Ennangal Mothi Varuvathai Yaridam Poyuraippen?"....
  
  8. Un Kannil Neer Vazhinthal En Nejil Uthiram Kottuthadi-En Kannil Paavaiyandro - Kannamma Ennuyir Ninnathandro" is Barathi's song. Kannadasan starts off with these lines and adds the rest oh his own in Vietnam Veedu song sung by TMS(MD is KVM)
  
  9. In Karnan there is a pure Ilakkiya Thoothu by Thalaivi, which KANNADASAN has very beautifully composed.Suseela sings as follows:-
  
  "Ennuyir Thozhi Keloru Seithi
  Ithuthana Ungal Mannavan Neethi
  
  Thannuyir Pole Mannuyir Kappan,
  Thalaivan Enraye thozhi?
  
  Aranmanai Arivan Ariyanai Arivan
  Anthappuram Onru Iruppathai Ariyan
  Varuginra Vazhakkai Theerthu Mudippan
  Maniviyin Vazhakkai Kanavilum Ninaiyan
  
  Inrenum Avan Enai Ninaivano?
  Ilamayai Kaakka Thunai Varuvanao?
  Nanru Thozhi Nee THoothu Selvayo?
  Nangayin Thuyara Seithi Solvayo?"
  
  Manay many more. It is about 2.am Malaysian time.En Veetu Thalaiviyidam Irunthu Thuyil Kollumbadi Thoothu Vanthuvittathu. Good night(morning). I really enjoyed this thread.
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Jan 27 14:03:15 EST 1998
  
  Great. How do you all recollect these poems that too in odd
  hours of the day (night?)
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tl03.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jan 27 14:27:30 EST 1998
  
  Manisegaran:
  That was a great compilation! I especially enjoyed the kambarAmAyaNam pieces. Thank you. Is kaNNadhaAsan's Karnan song inspired by any particular piece of literature?
  
  PG/aruLarasan:
  Re the pattinaththAr pAdalgaL used in the veedu varai uRavu song:
  
  pattinaththAr:
  aththamum vAzhvum agaththumattE! vizhiyambozhuga
  meththya mAdharum veedimattE vimmi vimmiyiru
  kaiththala mEl vaiththazhu maindharunjudu kAdumattE
  patRith thodarum iruvinaip puNNiya pAvamumE!
  
  kaNNadhAsan:
  The first three lines have the exact meaning as the pattinaththAr pAdal.
  veedu varai uRavu
  veedhi varai manaivi
  kAdu varai piLLai
  kadaisi varai yArO?
  While pattinaththAr says pAvam and puNNiyam come with one thru the end, kaNNadhAsan leaves it as an open-ended question.
  
  Back later..........
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tl03.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jan 27 15:06:54 EST 1998
  
  Continuing with the veedu varai uRavu , this pattinaththAr pAdal might have inspired a charaNam in that song.
  
  pattinaththAr:
  mudhaRchangu amudhoottum! moikuzhalAr Asai
  naduchchangu nalvilangu poottum! kadaichchangam
  AmpO dhadhu oodhum! ammattO immattO
  nAmboomi vAzhndha nalam?
  Basic meaning: There are three changugaL in a man's life. The first changu is used by the mother to feed him as a baby. The second one is sounded when he takes a wife in marriage. The third one signifies his end.
  
  kaNNadhAsan:
  I'm guessing kaNNadhAsan took the basic idea of birth, marriage & death as three milestones in life from this and composed this charaNam in veedu varai uRavu:
  thottilukku annai
  kattilukkuk kanni
  pattinikkuth theeni
  ketta pinbu yArO?
  
  Later.........
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tk01.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jan 27 16:50:05 EST 1998
  
  In this song, kaNNadhAsan is inspired by the descriptive style, not the content, in a kambarAmAyaNam verse.
  
  When Hanuman returns from Lanka after seeing Seetha, he tells Rama that he did not see a woman but saw the great traits of Seetha such as poRumai, kaRpu.
  viRperum thadanthOL veera veenguneer ilangai veRpin
  naRperum thavaththaLAya nangaiyaik kaNdEnillai.
  iRpiRappenba dhondRum irumpoRai enba dhondRum
  kaRpenum peyara dhondRum kaLinadam puriyak kaNdEn!
  
  kaNNadhAsan's kambar-inspired style in TFM:
  pon ondRu kaNdEn peNN angE illai
  ennendRu nAn sollalAgumA?
  poo ondRu kaNdEn mugam kANavillai
  En endRu nAn sollalAgumA
  
  
• From: pg (@ client-116-124.bellatlantic.net) on: Tue Jan 27 20:08:37 EST 1998
  
  KK's 'endha oor endravanE' is also based on this pattinathar song :
  
  udaRkooRu vaNNam
  ----------------
  
  oru mada maadhum oruvanum aahi inba sugam tharum
  anbu porundhi uNarvu kalangi...
  
  KK added the word play on 'oor' to this to create his own unique version.
  
  Incidentally this pattinathar original appears verbatim almost in full in pattinathar the movie.
  
  Also this veNba appears in the movie :
  
  aiyiraNdu thingaLai angamelam nondhu petRup
  paiyal endRa podhE parindheduthu - seyya iru
  kaippuRathil Endhi kanaga mulai thandaLai
  eppirappil kANben ini ?
  
  arisiyo iduven, AthAL thanakku ?
  varisaiyittu pArthu mahizhAmal - urisiyuLLa
  thEnE amirthamE selva thiraviyappoo
  mAnE ena azhaitta vAikku ?
  
  These songs of pattinathAr are some of the most touching songs I have ever read.
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ ww-te02.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue Jan 27 23:55:41 EST 1998
  
  Ennanga Manisegaran :
  
  Kannadasana Deva-vaa maathi viteenga, endha paattu eduthaalum "inspired by" appadinnu solreenga :-)
  
  Kannadasan copy adithaa "inspired by" appadinnu solreenga, adhuvae Deva copy aditha "cut & paste-aa" :-))
  
  Unga examples enakku romba pidithu irundhadhu.
  
  
• From: kaRka_kasadaRa (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Wed Jan 28 08:55:22 EST 1998
  
  Manisekaran:
  ArumaiyAna compilation. thodarungaL (thalaiviya
  eppadiyAvathu thAjA paNNi romba ezuthunga)
  
  Kanchana:
  thAkunga!
  
  Bhaskar: kEtteengaLE oru kELvi - ithE vagathudan
  oru kathiyudan "Deva Exposed" thread
  pakkam pOnga. anga puthsA oru Doctor kaila
  OOSIyudan vandhirukkAr.
  
  topic;
  
  tholkApiyam:
  kANbavai ellAm avaiyE pORul
  Kannadasan: (pAzum pazamum - VR)
  nee kANum poruL yAvum nAnAga vEndum
  
  pazaiya seiyuL:
  pularnthum pularAtha pozuthaNaiyAvAL
  ularnthum ularAtha thalaiyudanE
  marnthum malarAtha malar koivAL
  
  Kannadasan: (ungaLukku udanE njAbagam vandhirukkaNum!)
  
  
  mANikavAsagar:
  vAnAgi maNNAgi vaLiyAgi oLiyAgi
  kannadAsan: (thiruVilaiyAdal - KVM )
  kARRAnavan OliyAnavan neerAnavan neruppAnavan
  
  
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tk05.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Jan 28 09:29:08 EST 1998
  
  Literary Bones:
  changaththamizh purindhAlum ungaL thangaththamizh puriyavillai. yArai/edhaith "thAkka"ch cholgireergaL?
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tk05.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Jan 28 09:34:23 EST 1998
  
  One more to topic:
  
  pathragiriyAr pAdal:
  nAn rndRa ANavamum thaththuvamum kettozhindhE
  En endRa pEchchumindRi ilanguvadhum ekkAlam?
  
  TFM--movie???--Vaali?
  En endRa kELvi indRu kEtkAmal vAzhkkai illai
  nAn endRa uLLam koNda manidhar vAzhndhadhillai
  
  
• From: Manisegaran (@ wmu-55-118.tm.net.my) on: Wed Jan 28 12:50:02 EST 1998
  
  KATKA KASADARA AVARKALE
  En Thalaiviyin Vazhakkai Theerthuvitten. Thalaiviyai En Mamiyar Veettukku Thoothu Anuppivittu type adikkien(holidays) Let me continue from where I stopped last night(morning)
  
  1.In Kambaramayanam Mandothari says:
  
  "Kal Irukkum Malarkoonthal Sanagiyai
  Manachirayil Karantha Kathal
  Ul Irukkum
  Enakkaruthi Udal Puguntu
  Thadaviyatho Oruvan Vaal"
  
  This is reflected in a cine song that goes:
  
  "Kanagathai Thedi Inru Pogiral
  Kallirukkum Malark Koonthal Janagi"
  
  2."Itta Adi Noga Edutha Adi Koppalikka" is yet another famous description.In the film Nadodi we see this song:
  
  "Itta adi sivanthirukka
  Editha adi kaninthirukka
  Patta Idam Kulirnthirukka
  Paruva Mazhai Pozhinthirukka"(Thirumbi Vaa Oliye)
  
  3. "Satrey Sarintha Kuzhale" is also a verse most remembered by us. It is inserted in the song "Poyile Piranthu Poiyile Valarntha Pulavar Perumanae" in Ananda Jothi as follows:
  
  -Satre Sarintha Kuzhale Asainthu Thavuthu EN mele..
  -Athu Thaane Ezhunthu Mele Vizhunthu Izhuthathu Valai Pole"
  
  (This song was written by Kannadasan in his personal praise of Devika. In the film MGR takes the place of Kannadasan. Sorce: Santhithen Sinthiten, book by Kannadasan)
  
  4. In the film Poombugar we see Udumalai Nayayanak Kavi (called Kavirayar in Cine circles) doing a kind of "Idaicherugal" into his own song. His lines are as follows:
  
  "Ponnaal Ithu Pole Varuma Inimele
  Munnal Vanthathu Ethanaiyo Nannal"
  Then he takes in Chilappathikara varigal as follows:
  
  "Maasaru Ponney, Valampuri Muthey
  Kasaru Virayey Karumbey Thene..
  Malaiyidai Pirava Maniye Enko
  Alaiyidai Pirava Amizhthey Enko.."
  
  Then back to his Ponnaal..
  
  5.Another Aandaal Song goes;
  
  "Mathalam Kotta varisangam Ninrootha
  Muthudaith thamnirai thaazhntha Panthatkeezh
  maithunan Nambi Mathusoothan Vanthennaik
  Kaithalam Patrak Kanak Kanden Thozhinaan"
  
  Kannadasan uses this in Kanthan Karunai, sung by P. Suseela in a charanam of "Manam Padaithen Unnai Ninaippatharku Naan Vadiveduthen Unnai Manppatharku" The charanam is that :
  
  "Mathalam Melam Murasolikka
  Varisangam Minrangey Oli Isaikka
  Kaithalam Naan Patrak Kanavu Kanden
  Anthak- Kanavukal Nanavaka Uravu Thanthai"
  (Of course this song became controversial. But KVM was selected the best MD at national level for this film. Incidentally KVM is the first MD to receive national award from the south)
  
  6. Thirunaavukkarasar has a devotional song that goes:
  
  "Kunitha Puruvamung Kovvaichevvaayit Kuminsirippum
  Panitha Sadayum Pavalampol Meniyil Paal venneerum"
  
  At least two songs hsve used this to my knowledge. One is a saranam in the song "Thathi Thathi Thavalum Kiliyo Sarkarai Panthalil Then Mazhaiyo" by Seergaliyar and P.Suseela in Manaiviye Manithanin Manikam. The Charanam is "Kuntiha Puruvam Kovaichevvai Kollum Iru Vizhi Menmalaro"
  
  Then we see the same portion of Navukkarasar used as idaicherugal in the Rakkamma Kaiya Thattu in Thalapathi .
  
  7.Thirukkural has been reflected in tons in cine songs. To quote a few.
  "Anbum Aranum Udaiyavar vaazhvil Panbum Payanum Serum" (Sevai Sivathey Aanantham in Mahadevi-TMS-MSRajeswary. Lyrics by Pattukkottaiyar)
  
  "Kuzhal Inthu Yaazh Inithu Enbar Tham
  makkat Mazhalaicol Kelathar"
  
  In a song that P. Suseela start off like this
  
  "Chinna Chinna Nadai Nadanthu
  Sempavala Vaai tiranthu amma Enru Nee azhaithal Amutha Gaanam Pozhiyuthada.. she include kural style like this
  
  "Pinju Mazhalai Ketkaiyile Kuzhalum Yaazhum Poiyandro"
  
  8. In Nalvazhi we read as follows:-
  
  "Onrai Ninaikkin Athuvozhinthit tonraagum
  Anri Athuvarinum Vantheithum-Onrai
  Ninaiyaathu Munvanthu Nitpinum Nitkum
  Enaiyaalum Eesan Seyal"
  
  The idea is taken up by Kannadasan and reflected as follows:-
  
  "Nadakkum Enbar Nadakkathu
  Nadakkaathenbaar Nadanthuvidum
  Kidaikkum Enbaar Kidaikkathu
  Kidaikkathenbaar Kidaithuvidum"
  
  9.Vallalar's song goes like this:-
  
  "Enakkum Unakkum Isaintha Poruhtam Enna Poruhtamo
  Intha Porutham Ulagil Piraruk Keithum Poruthamo.."
  This is copied in several songs in several styleslike:-
  
  "Unakkum Enakkumthan Porutham Ithu Ethanai Kankalukku varutham"
  
  "Enna Porutham Namakkul Intha Porutham
  Kaathalennum Naadagathil Kalyana Subamey"
  
  10. Bharathiyar has been copied by the tons and we must be aware. Let me just quote the songs in the cine films, and you could easily identify the source.
  
  a) Kathalennum Solayiley Rathey Rathey..Chakravarthy Thirumakal-Seergali Govind)
  
  b) Kanniley Iruppathenna Kanni Ilam
  Maaney-Ambigapathy(P.Banumathy)
  
  c) Kannan Piranthaan Egal Kannan Piranthaan(Petral thaan Pillaya-TMS-PS)
  
  d) Kathaley Illaye Ulagile Saathal Onrey Dieveegamey(Charanam of En Kaathal Inbam Ithuthana of Thaikkupin Thaaram-AM Raja&P.Banumathy)
  
  e)Enrum Maarathu Naangal Konda Kaathal-Engal Kaathal Poyin Kaathal Poyin Saathal(Charanam of Kathal Enbathu Ethuvarai-PBS, LRE, PS &C-Babu, Pathalkanikkai)
  
  f) Kayile Inippathenna Kaniyanal Kasappathenna-(Manamulla Marutharam-Jikki/AM Raja)
  
  g)Putham Puthiya Boomi Vendum-(Thiruda Thiruda)
  
  h)Onrupattal Undu Vaazhvu Otrumai Neengidin Thaazhvu (film of same title-TMS/Jikki)
  
  i) Nambinaar Keduvathillai Aandavaney-Unnai Nambinaal Vaazhvathillai Kathalaney-(panakkara Kudumbam-P.Suseela)
  
  11) BHARATHIDASAN has also been copied by several cine poets.
  
  a)Bharathidasan says "Thamizhukkum Amuthendru Per-
  Antha Thamizh Inbath Thamizh Engal Uyirukku Ner"
  In the film Panjavarnakkili Vali twists and turns the above lines very beautifully for love theme as follows:
  "Avalukkum Thamizh Endru Per-Enrum Aval Enthan Nenjathil Asaigindra Ther.. Asaigindra Ther"
  
  b) Barathidasan says "Sollith therivathillai Manmathakkalai" In Karpukkarasi there is a song by TMS and Jikki - Kaniya Kanniya in which a caharanam says
  "Solli Onrum Therivathillai Manmathak Kaliye- Nee Kooda Ninra Pothum Inbam Kaniyum Vaazhviley"
  
  c)Bharadidasan says
  "Odapparayirukkum Ezhaiyappar
  Uthaiyapparagi Vittal Or Nodikkul
  Odappar Uyrappar Ellam Mari
  Oppappar Ayiduvar Unarappa Nee"
  
  Pattukkottai Kalyanasundaram in a song follows the above theme as follows-
  
  "Emathum Porvayile
  Ezhaigalin Vervayile
  Ekkalam Podum Kootam-Makkal
  Ethirthukkitta
  Edukkanum Ottam"
  
  d) Barathidasan says "Nalla Kudumbam Palkalaikkalagam" Wesee a similar song in Thangappathakkam by TMS / P.Suseela. It is "Nallathoru Kudumbam Palgalaikkalagam-Anbu mozhi Vazhangum Surangam Vazhga"
  
  There is no end to research in this thread. Mudikkamaley Mudikkiren.
  
  BHASKAR, I have never touched on Deva.You must be mistaken please. Anyway I must say that I am from English School. Not a day I entered Tamil school. I picked up Tamil on my own. Amongst others Kannadasan's poetic lines in cine songs gave me early inspiration to take up Tamil. So you can see that I am a living testimony to this thread-bringing ilakkiyam to Pamararkal.
  
  ARULARASAN, Unglauku kodi Punniyam for opening up this thread.
  
  Thanks friends- "Yathum Oorey, Yavarum Kelir"
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ 205.147.245.41) on: Wed Jan 28 14:43:03 EST 1998
  
  Manisegaran avargale:
  
  Ayiyyoo thappa eduthukadeengO, serious-aana topic-la oru Joke adichaen. Adhu ennadanna, adhu neenga solraa maadiri ezhudivitaen. Solraanga appadinnu ezhudhuvadharkku badhil Solreenga appadinnu ezhudittaen.
  
  Unga continuation was also too good to read. Aana enakku andha original compositions dhaan konjam kooda mandaiyila yaeradhu illa :-)
  
  Bones:
  
  Neenga ennikku indha maadiri pazhangaala paadalgal paditheergal :-))) Ungal ularnthum ularaatha paadal sooper :-)
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ cs506.cs.wmich.edu) on: Wed Jan 28 15:33:31 EST 1998
  
  Indha topic parkkumn podhu tamizh padikkamae poittomaennu thonradhu:((( Bhaskar enne solreenga?:)))
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ pkrishna-pc.cisco.com) on: Wed Jan 28 21:25:35 EST 1998
  
  In pattinaththaar paadalgaL, there is this seyyuL that starts like:
  
  maadhaa udal saliththaaL valvinaiyEn kaal saliththEn
  vEdhaavum kai saliththu vittaanE..
  
  KaNNadaasan used these lines, in saraNam of thaay thantha pichchaiyilE piRanthEnammaa from Saraswathi Sabatham as:
  
  peRRavaL udal saliththaal
  piLLai naan kaal saliththEn
  padaiththavanum kai saliththaanammaa..
  
  Very aptly used for the character in that film.
  
  Also, I feel that Vaali might have got the inspiration for the lines suttaal pon sivakkum.. sudaamal kaN sivanthEn("padagotti" paadal) from the lines of KambaraamaayaNam; I donot remember the lines but they do convey "kaamaththil sivanthana kaNgaL". Manisekaran, can you confirm, if it is from Kambaraamaayanam? Thanks.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• From: pillayar (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Thu Jan 29 00:33:54 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana:
  
  en thanga thamiz purilaiyA ??
  
  Pazum paruppum (pAyasamum vadaiyum)...
  4m kalanthu nAn tharuvEn - thunga kanimugathu
  thoomaniyE enakku sangath thamiz moondrum thA
  
  
  endru PILLAIYARai kEtta mAthiri (kEtathu yAr?)
  neengaLum enakku murukku/athirasam mAthiri
  (echchi vooravaikum) vishyangaL thrugirEn endrAl
  nAn en thanga thamizai tharugirEn!!!
  
  (murukku vandhadhum adichu THAKKIRUVEN)
  
  "thAkku" endrAl HINDI-il "go ahead! freak out!" endru arthAm.
  
  neenga sonna "En endra kElvi" is from 1000thil 1van - by vaali.
  
  
  Manisekaran:
  
  neenga sonna "Kanagathai Thedi Inru Pogiral"
  is from "engirunthO vandhAl" SeerkAzi/SJanaki pAdum nAttiya nAdaga pAttu.
  
  
  "thOl kaNdEn thOLE kaNdEn
  thOlil iru kiLigaL kandEn" enna meaning ??
  
  
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-te06.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Jan 29 08:56:20 EST 1998
  
  ilakkiya elumbugaL:
  Hindi endrAl enakkup purindhirukka niyAyamillai--viLakkiyadhaRku nandRi. neengaL oru nadamAdum pudhuththamizh agarAdhi allavA? adhanAl adhuvum oru pudhuththamizh vArththai endReNNik kuzhambi vittEn. :-))
  P.S. mOdhagams, murukkus, laddus are on their way to you.
  
  Pags:
  The full pattinaththAr song you have quoted is:
  mAdha vudal saliththAl; valvinaiyEn kAlsaliththEn
  vEdhAvung kaisaliththu vittAnE -- nAdhA
  iruppaiyoor vAzhsivanE, innumOr annai
  karuppaiyoor varAmaR kA!
  
  In Saraswathi Sabadham kaNNadhAsan continues the lines you've quoted with ini meeNdum oru thAi vayitRil piRavEn ammA which completes the meaning of the cheyyuL. So, the entire pattinaththAr pAdal except for the nAdha, iruppaiyoor vAzhsivanE has been used in the movie song--as you said, very aptly so.
  
  One more to the topic:
  unakkum keezhE uLLavar kOdi
  ninaiththup pArththu nimmadhi thEdu from kaNNadhAsan's mayakkamA kalakkamA is a direct lift from a Kumaraguruparar pAdal.
  
  Is kaNNadhAsan's vAzhkkai enbadhu viyAbAram charaNam from pOnAl pOgattum pOdA borrowed from a pattinaththAr song too?
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ waterboy.cisco.com) on: Thu Jan 29 10:32:40 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana
  
  Thanks for the full song. Its very interesting to note that ini oru thay vayitRil piRavEnammA is also from the same song, cleverly adopted.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tk01.proxy.aol.com) on: Thu Jan 29 11:51:17 EST 1998
  
  Pags:
  Agree; and, you are welcome. Thanks to aruLarasan, we are all having fun, delving into these literary details. I am definitely learning a lot in the process.
  
  To topic:
  Continuing my veedu varai uRavu discussion from two days back....
  
  pattinaththAr:
  vittuvidap pOgudhuyir! vittavudanE udalaich
  chuttuvidap pOgindRAr sutRaththAr -- attiyindRi
  ennEra mumsivanai EtRungaL pOtRungaL
  sonna adhevE sugam.
  
  kaNNadhAsan in veedu varai uRavu:
  vittu vidum Avi
  pattu vidum mEni
  suttu vidum neruppu
  sooniyaththil nilaippu
  
  The most impactful lines in veedu varai uRavu are those which precede the full song.
  Adiya Attam enna
  pEsiya vArththai enna
  thEdiya selvam enna
  thiraNdadhOr sutRam enna
  koodu vittu Avi pOnAl
  koodavE varuvadhenna?
  Sounds very much like pattinaththAr, but I haven't been able to locate the corresponding pattinaththAr pAdal so far.
  
  
• From: badA_bEjArupA (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Fri Jan 30 02:28:05 EST 1998
  
  Yesterday I listened to this latest hit song from
  "GANA PATTU MANNAR" Deva (he is the singer also)
  from kAthalE nimmathi: "vidha vidhamA soapu seepu kaNNAdi"
  
  The lines from that song should be considered as
  "Bringing ilakiyam to koovam". The lines are:
  
  dAvu dAvu dAvudA !!!
  dAvillAti die-edA!!!
  
  ithOdA ilakiya varigaL:
  
  kAthal kAthal kAthal
  kAthal pOin sAthal
  
  (Kanchana, ungaLukku mElum sila thangath thamiz vArthaigaL!!!)
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ cs509.cs.wmich.edu) on: Fri Jan 30 08:33:57 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana and others : indha Kannadhasan pattukku artham sollungalen(film : Nalladhor kudumbam,Song:
  sindhu nadhi karai oram)
  
  thellu thamizh silambugalai
  alli aval anindhu kondaal
  
  Appidinna enne???
  
  Then he writes
  
  Kallirukkum koondhalukku mullai malar
  naan koduthen
  
  koondhalil aedhu kallu??Malargalil kallundunnu
  koondhalukku aedhu??oru velai koondhalil malar vaithu vaithu koondhal andha kallaiellam urunji.....
  
  
• From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com) on: Fri Jan 30 12:41:10 EST 1998
  
  Ramki: Adhedhan. Poovilirundha kall thalaiyil irangi vittadhu. Thiruvilayadallil Tharumi vidai sonna kelvi gnaabagam irukkiradha ? Pengalin koondhalukku iyarkaiyile manam unda illaiya ?,
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-te06.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jan 30 15:03:04 EST 1998
  
  Ramki:
  I don't know the full song, so I'll go with the lines you've cited here:
  thelluth thamizhch chilambugaLai
  aLLi avaL aNindhu koNdAL
  chilambu is an ornamental anklet, worn by women in the olden days, with the maNigaL inside (as opposed to outside in today's kolusugaL). In this varuNanai song, I think the kavignar is saying: avaL nadayilE inimaiyAna thamizhch chandhangaL olikkum.
  RV has answered Part 2 of your question.
  
  To the topic:
  pattinaththAr:
  muttach chiRagilittuk kAppAtRich cheerAttum thAi
  
  kaNNadhAsan in malarndhu malarAdha from pAsamalar:
  chiRagil enai moodi arumai magaL pOla vaLarththa kadhai sollavA
  
  Bharadhi in kAtru veLiyidaik kaNNammA:
  uyirththeeyinilE vaLar jyothiyE
  undhan sindhanaiyE endhan siththamE
  [deja vu, anyone? :-)]
  
  kaNNadhAsan in malargaL nanaindhana paniyAlE from Idhayakkamalam:
  iRaivan murugan thiruveettil
  en idhayaththinAl oru viLakkEtRi
  uyirenum kAdhal neyyootRi
  unnOdiruppEn malaradi pOtRi
  
  What follows is a repeat of my earlier posting in another thread, but deserves to be mentioned here. Though embedded in the epic Mahabaratha and presented in the context of the Kurukshetra war as Krishna talking to Arjuna, the Bhagvad Gita per se is a secular document which communicates a philosophy/meaning of life. There is an inherent duality within the Gita which makes it self-contradictory and very tough to comprehend (personal experience!):
  (1) Krishna, as God, who is the Universe itself with no absolute meaning for good or evil; (2) Krishna, as Arjuna's mortal guide, who has to advise him to fight against evil for the betterment of the relative good by the code in the human world.
  It is a feather in kaNNadhAsan's cap to have communicated the essence of this complex philosophical document written in Sanskrit to us pAmaragaL in thamizh through a 3-minute movie song from karNan.
  
  The Gita explains in detail how as an inherent part of the Universe the soul never dies.
  maraNaththai eNNik kalangidum VijayA
  maraNaththin thanmai solvEn
  mAnidar AnmA maraNam eidhAdhu
  maRupadi piRandhirukkum
  mEniyaik kolvAi mEniyaik kolvAi
  veeraththil adhuvum ondRu
  nee vittu vittAlum avargaLin mEni
  vendhudhAn theerum Or nAL
  
  The Gita talks about how we can help others do their duty by doing what we ourselves believe to be right in this mortal world, and presents the concept of God as this entire Universe and more.
  ennai aRindhAi
  ellA uyirum enadhendRum aRindhu koNdAi
  kaNNan manadhu kalmanadhendRO gANdeepam nazhuva vittAi
  mannarum nAnE makkaLum nAnE
  maram chedi kodigaL nAnE
  sonnavan kaNNan kolbavan kaNNan
  thuNindhu nil dharmam vAzha
  
  The Gita elaborates on individual responsibility and the mental resignation of all actions unto God and be united in consciousness with Him.
  puNNiyam idhuvendRu ulagam sonnAl
  andhap puNNiyam kaNNanukkE
  pOtRuvAr pOtRalum thootRuvAr thootRalum
  pOgattum kaNNanukkE
  kaNNanE kAttinAn kaNNanE thAkkinAn
  kaNNanE kolai seigindRAn
  gAndeepam ezhuga nin kaivanmai ezhuga
  ikkaLamelAm chivakka...vAzhga
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-te06.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jan 30 15:17:02 EST 1998
  
  Bones:
  neengaLE en pudhuththamizh AsAn! endRO yAn seidha arundhavap payan!! :-)
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ cs515.cs.wmich.edu) on: Fri Jan 30 15:26:32 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana ang RV thanks for the clarification.
  But still second part is not really clear.
  Poovodu vaasam koondalukku varalam but kall eppidi erangum oru velai thaliyile thengai ennai avarukku kallu madhiri therinjudho??:)))))
  
  Kanchana inda paadal oru kanavan and manaivi paadum paadalaga amaindhulladhu.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-te06.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jan 30 15:36:49 EST 1998
  
  Ramki:
  Thanks for that additional info. kaNavan than anbu manaiviyidam "iyaRkaiyAgavE (kaLLaippOl) mayakkamoottum un koondhalukku innum maNam sErkka mullaippoo koduththEn" endRu solgiRar?!
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-te06.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jan 30 16:00:03 EST 1998
  
  Ramki:
  Please substitute the word "dhinamum malargaL soodi ERpatta naRumaNaththAl" for the word "iyaRkaiyAgavE". I was absent minded--we don't want a repeat of the ThiruviLayAdal story here:) Thanks.
  
  To the topic:
  kaNNadhAsan penned the song pArvai ondRE pOdhumE pallAyiram sol vENdumA from Yaar Nee based on kaNNodu kaNNinai kuRaL, not vAli as I said in my earlier posting. Apologies.
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Fri Jan 30 18:34:03 EST 1998
  
  rAmki,
  
  kaLLirukkum kUndhal doesnot literally mean that the kUndhal
  has kaLLu. It only means that her kUndhal gives him a kick like
  kaLLu. (In fact, I saw once a pAtti advising a peNmaNi to make
  her vomitting son (in a moving bus) to smell
  kUndhal. I think
  the idea was that the kUndhal that always has
  some flower of
  thEngAi yeNNai will give a pleasant smell and stop
  his vomit. Now
  got what is meant by kaLLirukkum kUndhal?)
  
  After seeing maNisEgaran and kAnchanA's contribution I
  started reading some old poems and found this like in a natRiNaip
  pAdal. (vEla vetti yillAma vUtlayE kundhikunu kIRiyE, sariyA?
  yendRu kEtta manaiviydam kaNavan dabanchikiRaru. ponnum maNiyum
  un mEniyum kUndhalum, alliyum mUngilum pOla un kaNgaLum vanappum.
  ippadi nI irukaRadhAla, en manasellAm kettup pOchchu, nAn onnum
  chAndROr pOndRavan illai; vElayum vERa kedaikka mAttengudhu;
  adhanAla unna vittup pORadhukku manasu varala. yippadi yellAm
  thAjA paNNivittu he finishes the poem with the line)
  
  kAdhal thAnum kadalinum peridhE.
  
  I think this concept has been used in innumerable songs. (But I
  can't remember even one now; yEnendRAl anjali pushpAnjali is
  playing in the background.)
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-ta05.proxy.aol.com) on: Sat Jan 31 16:03:36 EST 1998
  
  aruLarasan:
  Thank you for explaining that natRiNaip pAdal in chennaich chenthamizh--now I'm looking for a dictionary to look up "dabanchikirAru."
  
  Doesn't the song anjali pushpAnjal you were listening to last night have some lines with the kAdhal kadal concept?
  kadalilE mazhai peidha pin endhath thuLi mazhaiththuLi
  kAdhalil adhu pOla nAm kalandhittOm kAdhali
  
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ bat-50-165.tm.net.my) on: Sun Feb 1 12:03:34 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana,
  Thank you really for touching on Gita.Taking the lead from that let me touch on "Aayiram Karangal Neetti" in Karnan. It used to be thought that Veiyitketra Nizhalundu Veesum Thendral Kaatrundu from Kalvanin Kathali laid the yardstick for translation into Tamil of foreign songs. That was a song of Umar Khayam translated by Desiga Vinayagam Pillai. Likewise in Karnan, Kannadasan has created great impression on the hearts and minds of the Veda chanters. Kannadasan amd MSV/TKR spent 15 days in Bangalore to compose the songs for Karnan. They brought the veda chanters to their hotel room and requested them to chant the vedas. After listening to the chanting, Kannadasan was highly inspired and he composed the following lines:-
  
  "Aayiram Karangal Neeti
  Anaikkindra Thaye Potri
  Arul Pongum Mugathai Kaati
  Irul Neekam Thanthai Potri
  Thayinum parinthu Sala Sagalarai Anaippai Potri
  Thazhaikkum Or Uyirkatkellam Thunakkaram Koduppai Potri
  Thoorathey Neruppai Vaithu Saarathai Tharuvai Potri
  Gnayire Nalamey Vazhga Nayagan Vadivey Potri
  Naanilam Ulla Naal Mattum Potruvom Potri Potri"
  
  In any translation, you may only get the form(Vadivam)but seldom the spirit(unarchi). When this song was relesed, remarks were made that Kannadasan was able to retain the original form and spirit of the Sanskrit Vedas in the Tamil translation. This piece remains one of the masterpieces of Kavgnar.
  
  KANCHANA
  
  Regarding Ennuyir Thozi Keladi Thozhi in the same Karnan, I am not able to relate it to any Kambaramayanam song. But following this thread I am very much impressed by your knowledge of Kambaramayanam. You may help me in identifying the right verse.
  
  In many cases Kannadasan had taken several ancient poetic words to strengthen his own works.In Kairasi we se the following line:-
  
  "Anbulla Athan Vanakkam, Ungal "AAYIZHAI" kondal mayakkam. Likewise in the Nenjirukkum Varai song we see such ancient poetic words seldom used these days. "Poo Mudippal intha "POONGUZHALI". In the Kaathalikka Neramillai song we see Naalam naalam Thirunalaam "NAMBIKKUM" "NANGAIKKUM" Mananaalam.
  
  We would have heard of Pugazhenthi, the assistant to KV Mahadevan. He always insisted on poetic word s for songs-right in the presence of KVM. This is how he got the following song from Puthaneri Subramaniam for the film Ponnithirunaal, (MD is Pugazhenthi):
  
  PS=Veesu Thendraley Veesu Vetkai Neengavey Veesu
  Maasu Illatha En Aasai Kathalan
  Vanthu Senthamizhil Sinthu Paadavey
  PBS=Paadu Kogilam Paadu Pasamodu Nee Paaadu
  Thedum Kathalan Odi "VANTHANAN"
  Sinthu Paadidu Nee Sernthu Paadalam.
  (Puthaneri Subramnaniam told me that this song was originally composed for Nadodi Mannan when the film was in the planning stage, but some Valloorugal did some sathi. MGR called him aside and gave him Rs 500 for the disappointment which MGR himself could not diffuse. Puthaneriyar was later made Director of Ancient Arts in MGR's rule)
  
  In Kulamagal Rathai we hear the following lines:-
  "Iravukku Aayiran Kankal Pagalukku Onney Onnu" Is this borrowed from Shelley?
  
  How about "Ellam Nadaga Medai Ithil Engum Nadikar Koottam" from Pasamum Nesamum? From Shakespear?(Jegappiriyar enru artham kodutham oruvan)
  
  There are also instances where Kannadasan has taken ideas from Sangap Padalkal to compose his own songs for the THALAIVAN-THALAIVI situation. In Kairasi we see one:-
  THALAIVAN:=Sumathi Nee Ezhuthiyum Naan Varavillai Endraal?
  THALAIVI=Ponmani Megalai Boomiyil Veezhum
  Pulambum Silambirandum Enaivittu Odum
  Kaivalai Sornthuvidum Kankalum Moodum
  Kaanbavar Ungalaithan Pazhi Solla Nerum
  Kanbavar Ungalaithan...Pazhi Solla Nerum...Anbulla Athan...Vanakkam...
  
  In Karuppu Panam we see greater details of how the Thalaivi related the "treatment" of the Thalaivan with her Thozhi:
  
  Thalaivi= Ammamma Keladi Thozhi Sonnaney Aayiram Sethi
  Kannaley Kandathu Paathi Sollamal Vanthathu Meethi
  
  Thozhi= Ithuthaan Sugamo Innum Perumo
  Ilamai Tharumo Mayakkam Varumo..Haaa.
  
  Thalaivi= Pinjaga Naaniruntheney Pennaga Valarthuvittaney
  Anjaamal Anaithuvittaney Acharam Koduthivittaney
  
  Thozhi=Avano Ilagnan Ivalo Sirumy Orunaal Kanavil Ulagey Maranthaar
  
  Thalaivi=Mutharam Sariya Vaithaney
  Mulmeley Thoongavaithaney
  Noolaga Ilaikka Vaithaney
  Paalaga Velukka Vaithaney..Oh...
  
  Thozhi= Aiyaiyo Paavamey Anaiyatha Mogamey
  Anubavam Konjamey Alaiyuthey Nenjamey
  
  Thalaivi=Thannaley Pesavaithaney
  Thanneerai Kothikka Vaithaney
  Ellarum Sirikka Vaithaney..Ammamma..
  
  BONES are you around? If G.Varaletchumy's background gave you Kallu and Oorukai, the background this song will give you 500 milli pattai and sutta karuvadu. (Unsitable for this site)
  
  Arularasan so far this is the most enjoyable thread for me. Thank you once again.
  
  My "Mathavi Ponmayilaal Thogai Virithaal, Vanna Maiyitta Kan Malarnthu Thoothu Viduthuvittaal" Good night(morning)
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-ti02.proxy.aol.com) on: Sun Feb 1 13:39:21 EST 1998
  
  Manisekaran:
  Thanks again for sharing more information; as always, it made for thought-provoking and enjoyable reading. I hope you can continue to share your thoughts in this thread as your time would allow.
  
  Re the karNan song Ayiram karangaL neetti: I've always wondered if MSV/TKR got inspired by the Sanskrit manthra pushpam chanted after any pooja which starts with yOpAm pushpam vEdA pushpavAn prajAvAAn pashumAn bhavati. Your answer on vedic chants confirms that.
  
  Re use of archaic chenthamizh words:
  1. poomudippAL song uses some more beautiful words like kaiththalam, kanagamaNichcharam, mAdharAr.
  2. the entire pallavi of nALAm nALAm sounds literature-inspired (remember indhiran thEril varuvAnAm?) Beautiful music too to enhance the lyrics!
  
  Re the ellAm nAdakam from pAsamum nEsamum:
  kaNNadhAsan repeats the idea several times--one of his favorite concepts, possibly.
  illAdha mEdai ondRil ezhudhAdha nAdakathil
  ellOrum nadikkindROm nAmE ellOrum pArkindrOm
  (kELviyin nAyakanE in apoorva rAgangaL)
  
  nilayilladha oru ulaga mEdaiyil
  nAmum vandhahenna
  (nee enbadhenna in karuppup paNam?)
  
  nAdakamE indha ulagam
  AduvadhO bommalAttam
  (movie??)
  
  What follows is a song which kaNNadhAsan wrote for pachchai viLakku, where the thalaivi--thOzhi conversation details thalaivi's sufferings due to her separation from thalaivan. There is no one particular literary source I can point to, but I see shades of similar scenes from several pieces of literature.
  (thalaivi's lines are italicised.)
  
  thoodhu sella oru thOzhi illaiyenath
  thuyar koNdAyO thalaivi
  thuLLum kAtRu vandhu mella chElai thoda
  sugam kaNdAyO thalaivi
  andRu sendRavanai innum kANavillai
  enna seivadhadi thOzhi
  thendRal thottadhadi thingaL suttadhadi
  kaNgaL vAdudhadi thOzhi
  
  panneer nadhiyil kuLiththu vandhAlum
  paruvam thoongumE thalaivi
  venneer nadhiyaip panneer enavE
  pEsalAgumO thOzhi
  idayaNi mEgalai vizhundhidum vaNNam
  EngalAgumO thalaivi
  kadaiyirundhum poruL koLvOr illaiyE
  kalakkam varAdhO thOzhi
  
  muththum maNiyum karugidum vaNNam
  mOgaththil AzhndhAL thalaivi
  muththaththai maRandhavaL chiththaththil irundhadhai
  mounaththil aRindhAL thOzhi
  kAvirikkarayin Oraththil ivvidham
  kAththirundhAL andhath thalaivi
  kAviya nAyakan kAdhalan vaNigan
  kOvalan enbAn manaivi
  
  Here is a viruththappA:
  cheththukk kidakkum piNaththarugE inichchAm piNangaL
  kaththum kaNakkenna?
  Meaning: Look at the way the to-be-dead are wailing for the dead!
  
  I think kaNNadhAsan uses this in the Adi adangum vAzhkkaiyadA, ARadi nilamE sondhamadA song, but I'm unable to recall the exact lines.
  
  
• From: RV (@ 1cust47.max14.san-francisco.ca.ms.uu.net) on: Sun Feb 1 18:32:56 EST 1998
  
  Manisegaran:
  
  Pugazhendi thaniyaaga oru padatthukku isai amaitthaaraa ? Naan arindha varaiyil avar pala vaayppugalai marutthu KVM-udan irundhar endrudhaan seidhi. Avar veru yedhaavadhu padatthukku isai amaitthaaraa ?
  
  
• From: Pagalavan (@ waterboy.cisco.com) on: Mon Feb 2 02:22:47 EST 1998
  
  kanchana
  
  aadi adangum vaazhkkaiyadaaa from neerkkumizhi was written by uvamaikkavignar Suratha.
  
  About nee enbathenna.. song, itss from veNNiRa aadai
  
  
• From: Sundar Ramanathan (@ 202.54.10.80) on: Mon Feb 2 03:21:56 EST 1998
  
  aadai nilavena mUdi maraikkum aanandha mayakkam
  
  can somebody help me find out the origin...
  i'm sure its in aha400/kurunthogai
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tf02.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Feb 2 09:06:17 EST 1998
  
  Pags:
  Thank you for the corrections.
  
  Sundar:
  Which TFM song are those lines from?
  
  
• From: Manisekaran (@ bat-47-19.tm.net.my) on: Mon Feb 2 12:08:17 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana
  
  Enakku Adi Eduthu Koduthatharku Mikka Nanri. Before that, "Nadagamey Intha Ulakam" by AL Ragavan is written by Tanjai Vanan of Madras Doordarsan (of "Ilanthendral" fame) for the film Sathu Mirandaal, the first movie by TKR after seperation from MSV.
  
  "Aadi Adankum Vazhkaiyada" is by Suratha and the first film song for the late V.Kumar for S.Balachander's Neerkumizhi. Suratha has requested that when he dies, All India Radio played "Amuthum Thenum Etharku" followed by "Aadi Adankum Vazhkaiyada" Lets wait and see if the request by this Uvamai Kavignar is fulfilled.
  
  It used to be thought that the most difficult song L.R. Eswary ever sang was "Pattathu Raani Paarkum Paarvai" in Sivantha Man. But in her intervies she clarified that the most diffcult song for her was "Nee Enbathenna" from Vennira Aadai. It was a challenge thrown by MSV and TKR. In that song she had to sing, laugh, cry, speak dialogue, bring in happy and sad moods etc. The listener should be impressed that it is a mad song even before seeing the movie. If possible, please listen to this beautiful piece picturised on a then slim dancer Jayalalitha.
  
  RV,
  Pugazhenthi is a Keralite by origin. But he was brought up in Tamilnadu. His heart is with Tamil. He always insisted on proper lyrics for movie songs. In the film "Thaliya Salangaiya" he used poems of Kannadasan which were composed much earlier. He used to spend his time with KVM most of the time, assisting him. It is true that he has turned down so many requests, but he still has composed for films like Jeyaveeran, Guruthatchanai, Selviyin Selvan, and of course Ponni Thirunaal as I mentioned.
  
  Now Kanchana,
  
  1. I concluded yesterday's posting by quoting Vaali in Iru Malarkal: "Maathavi Pon Mayilaal Thogai Virithal- Vanna Maiyitta Kan Malarnthu Thoothu Viduthaal" I believe this was not metaphorically composed. Thogai Virippathu Aan Mayil Thaney? Maathavi Pon Mayilaal Thogai Virithaal Enbathu" sariyaaguma?
  
  2. Vallalar said "Kadai Thiranthen Porul Kolvarillai" in a philosophical context. Kannadasan used the same verse in Pachai Vilakku as "Kadaiyirunthum Porul Kolvorillaiye Kalakkam Varatho Thozhi"
  
  3.In Thirukkural again we see:
  "Thoditsudin Allathu Kaama Noi Pola
  Viditsudal Aatrumo Thee" - roughly meaning Fire will only burn you if you touch it, whereas the Kaama Noi will burn you if you keep away.
  I can identify at least two cine songs. In the "Padikka Vendum Puthiya Paadam Vathiyaraiyaa" from the film Thayilla Pillai(MD is KVM, lyrics by Maruthakazi), we see the following charanam:
  
  F= Kittey Sendru Thottaal Kulirum Puthu Neruppu-Naam Ettichendraal Sudum Neruppu Enna Neruppu?
  
  M=Ottum Iru Ullanthannil Patrik Kondathu-Antha
  Putham Puthu Neruppaithaney Kaathal Enbathu, Kavignar Sonnathu"
  
  Then in the song "Veesu Thendraley Veesu" of Ponni Thirunaal(yesterday's citing) we see the following lines:
  
  F=Thottaal Kulirum Vittu Vilaginaal- Sudumey Kaathal Neruppu
  
  M=Vittu Vilaguthal Ini Ethu?-Entha Veppamum Nammai Nerungaathu.
  
  Thanks again. The office re-opens in the next couple of hours after six days of holidays. Hope I will find time to be with all of you.Regards.
  
  
• From: Ramki (@ csg01.cs.wmich.edu) on: Mon Feb 2 13:42:48 EST 1998
  
  Kanchana the song you are looking for is 'iravukkum pagalakkum ini enne velai'
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tk01.proxy.aol.com) on: Mon Feb 2 20:52:47 EST 1998
  
  Ramki:
  Thank you for ID'ing the song.
  
  Manisekaran:
  thoodhu sella pAttil nAn adi eduththuk koduththadhai ilakkiya udhAraNam solli mudiththuk koduththadhaRku nandRi.
  
  mAdhavip ponmayilAL pAttil varuvadhu pOl peNmayil thOgai virikkumA endRu kEttirukkireergaL. Adal thiRamai, azhagu iraNdaiyum sErththuth tharum nalla uruvagam thOgai mayil. Doesn't this "offence" fall under poetic license?
  
  In the interests of tracking precise sources in a research topic such as this, let me add this info. I'd mentioned above that karNan's Ayiram karangaL neetti might have been inspired by manthra pushpam judging by the tune. manthra pushpam is sung while praying to the sun god (and hence, the tune is very appropriate to the movie's song situation) or at the end of the puja, and is part of the taittarIya upanishad found in the krishna yajur vEda.
  
  Thanks again, and regards.
  
  
• From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu) on: Tue Feb 3 21:01:02 EST 1998
  
  The song chinna chinna thUral enna in the movie senthamizhp pAttu
  has the line idi enum isai muzhangida varum mazhaiyE .
  There is a similar line in a puRanAnUtRup pAdal by kazhaithinyAnaiyAr.
  The song is "yI ena iraththal izhindhandRu" (a very beautiful
  song). There is a line "karuvi vAnam pOla varaiyAdhu surakkum..."
  I think this just a similarity and there is no "bringing to
  pAmaran" working here but anyhow seemed interesting.
  
  
• From: sathyakumar (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Fri Feb 6 07:01:12 EST 1998
  
  Warning: nothing todo with TFM but related to ilakkiyam to pAmaran...
  
  Sorry to Digress, since I thought it is some interesting Tamil seyuL
  related to applied mathematics, I thought I would post it here.
  
  Our munnOrs were smart enough to find out the number of
  palA suLaigaL before opening the palA pazam.
  The seyuL goes....
  
  palAvin suLaiyaRiya vENduthirEl Angku
  siRu muLLuk kAmbu arugE eNNi - varuvathai
  ArinAl perukkiyE, ainthinukku eenthidavE
  vEReNNa vENdAnj suLai.
  
  athAvathu kAmbaich sutriyuLLa mutgaLai eNNi,
  athai 6Al perukki, 5Al vaguththAl kidaippathu
  pazaththin uLLE uLLa suzaiyin eNNikai.
  (next time before you struggle with PP, try this)
  
  I found this in a "Futurology in Tamil" related
  Edu Josiyam discussion from Tamil.net. If anybody wants
  to know more about this topic - send me mail - I will send those few articles (all in Murasu).
  
  
  
  
• From: RV (@ nat-20.avanticorp.com) on: Fri Feb 6 14:31:03 EST 1998
  
  A question actually;
  
  Is the form Kavadich Chindu used in TFM at all ? The closest I can think of is the song
  "Andhi Saayura Neram" in Mandiri Kumari. This is such an easy form to sing that I am surprised I cant think of many songs in this format. Naanoru Sindhu doesnt seem to fit the format.
  
  How about Kuravanji style music ?
  
  
• From: Bhaskar (@ 205.147.245.41) on: Fri Feb 6 19:03:14 EST 1998
  
  Bones:
  
  Applied Mathematics to paamaran :-)) Ungalukku oru mail anuppi irukkaen.
  
  
• From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu) on: Mon Mar 15 13:21:36 EST 1999
  
  in ESK, VM has used the 27th song of kuRunthokai.
  kanRum uNNaathu kalaththilum pataathu
  n-allaal thImpaal n-ilaththi okkaangku
  enakkum aakaathu enaikkum uthavaathu
  pachalai uNIiyar vENtum
  thithalai alkul enmaamai kavinE !
  
  

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