Topic started by Ramki (@ proxy7.cyberway.com.sg) on Sat Jun 21 00:14:12 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.
- Old responses
- From: Manisekaran (@ bat-46-127.tm.net.my)
on: Mon Jul 13 06:50:40 EDT 1998
Oru Koppayile En Kudiyiruppu
Oru Lolamayil En thunayiruppu was written for the film Ratha Thilakam which Kannadasan produced under the banner of National Movies, using Panchu Arunasalam as the proprietor. The origninal story was based on a Bengali novel but adapted to depict the Indo China war of 1962. The film was released one year after the war came to an end. So the "puch" was lost. Morover, as the film was running, a phone call came from the Russian Embassy to complain that in the place of the Cninese flag, the Russian flag was shown flying. Kannadasan immediately shot a scene of the Chinese flag flying, made copies and rushed to all the theatres in Tamilnadu where the film was being screened. Anyway the film ran for 2 weeks only. Kannadasan almost sacked Savithri for cancelling the call sheet. But Gemini Ganesh diluted the situation.
The koppayile song was written for this film after the late Home Minister Kakkan issued Kannadasan with a drinking "permit". In a way the song was written to celebrate the victory he had over Kakkan in securing the permit. Kanndasan had a tough time convincing Kakkan to issue the permit.
Kannadasan himself appears in a college to sing the song. He appears in lounge suit-with no shoes, but chaples(slippers). Athilum controversy thaana? Kannadasan exhibited his life as an open book. But some secret "kudimakkaL" made fun of Kannadasan for writing such a book. The MD is KVM, but the song remains one of the favourite of MSV.
2. Mounathil Vilayaadum Manasathchiye is from Noolveli, and an ward winner for Dr. Balamuralikrishna. When Kanndasan was very sick Balamurali went to visit him. There he saw Kannadasan listening to this song in a tape record player. One of the last best philosophical song of Kannadasan is this song.
3. Buthiyulla Manitharellaaam Vetri Kanbathillai
Vetri Petra manitharellam Buthisaaliyillai is from AVM's Annai. Therefore it naturally follows that the MD is Sudarsanam. Singer is JB Chandrababu.
Irandey adikalil vishayathai koorum vallamai pertravar intha Kannadasan.
In many cases it is sheer opportunity that lifts a person high in society. Ellaaam neramthaan. The full song:
Puthiyulla Manitharellaam Vetri Kanbathillai Vetri Petra manitharellaam Buthisaaliyillai
Panamirukkum Manitharidam Manamiruppathillai
Manamirukkum Manitharidam panamiruppathillai
Panam Padaitha Veettiniley Vanthathellaam Sontham
Panamillaatha Manitharukku Sonthamellam Thunbam
paruvam Vantha Anaivarumey Kathal Kolvathillai
Kathal Konda Anaivarumey Sernthu Vaazhvathillai
Sernthu Vaazhum Anaivarumey Sernthu Povathillai
Kanavu Kaanum Manithanukku Ninaippathellaaam Kanavu-
Avan Kaanukinra Kanaviniley Varuvathellaam Uravu
Avan Kanavil Aval varuvaal
Avalai Paarthu Sirippaal
Avan Manathil Yaar Varuvaar Yarai Paarthu Azhaippaal?
- From: SS (@ 172-59-65.ipt.aol.com)
on: Tue Jul 14 00:03:37 EDT 1998
Is there any songs on women'slib, pennurimai.. by kannadasan?.
Probably i am wrong, but as for as kannadasan is concerned Pen enbaval
"Kaalam pahaithalum kanavar paniseithu" kaalathai katathupaval....
May be wrong....
- From: Manisekaran (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Tue Jul 14 02:29:15 EDT 1998
Thangathile oru Kurai Irunthaalum that you have quoted was written for a film situation. But Kannadasan has certainly written many songs in praise of women. In Hello Mr. Zamindar we see this song:
Anaithu Valarppavalum Thayallavo Anaippil Adanguvathum Avalallavo
Kalaignan Naaduvathum Ilaignan Theduvathum
Kavignan Paaduvathum Pennallavo-Pen
Iyarkayin Seethana Parswallavo
Ponnum Porulum Vanthu Mozhi Solluma?
Entha Poovaikkum Malaiyidum Manam Varuma?
Inru Thedi Varum Naalai Odividum
Selvam Ninaithapadi Amainthiduma?
Entha Selvamum Penmayion Sugam Tharuma?
Ilamai Koluvirukkum Inimai Sugamirukkum
Iyarkai Manamirukkum Paruvathile..
PEN ILLAAMAL SUGAMILLAI ULAGATHILE!(A Decisive conclusion)
In another song from Paar Magale Paar (Ennai Thottu Senrana Kankal) Kannadasan again says
"Pennukkul Mannodu Vinnai Kanden.." meaning she is an asset for boith this world and the world to come.
In the song Thedinen Vanthathu from OOty Varai Uravu Kannadasan again says:
"Pen Enraal Deiva Malikai Thiranthu Kollatho?"
- From: ss (@ 172-97-35.ipt.aol.com)
on: Tue Jul 14 21:58:28 EDT 1998
Thanks Manisekaran for the examples. Still some questions.
In the song "Neerodum vaigayiley"
The male says "Naan kaathal ennum kavidhai sonnen kattilin meley"
Female says "Antha KARUNAIKKU naan parisu thanthen thottilin mele"
Does kannadasan mean.. even Thambathiyam, illarasugam ellam Aan pennukku kaattum karunai???
If someone says a kavithai, you should give them a parisu for that kavithai.
Why he didnt write "antha kavithaikku naan parisu thanthen thottilin mele"
"Kodu pottu nirkka sonnan seethai nirakavillaye"... he writes, and then in the sad song he goes like
"Kodu vattam enabthellam pennirkku ingey veligal"
Even in all the songs you have quoted, he sees penn as "Sugam tharupaval" except for that song on annai.
In paava mannippu song, i agree it was a situation song. But instead of writing "Kaaalam pahaithaalum kanavar pani seithu" if he had written
"Kaalam pahaithaalum kanavar THUNAI NINDRU"... It would have made a lot of difference.
He might have written so may songs praising Motherhood. I dont disagree.
But what i am looking for is Bharathi's thaakam when it comes to Penn.
- From: Manisekaran (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Tue Jul 14 23:03:52 EDT 1998
The song Neerodum Vaigayile had stirrep up much controversy even at the time the song was released.
1.Neerodum Vaigayil Meen ninraaduma? Eppadi?
2.eiyoorum Kaanagathil Maan Kai Kaattuma? Eppadi?
But then there is an element of kavithai Mayakkam which is universally used to bring out the beauty in poems. For example, Bharathiyar says Kathum Kuyilosai Satre Vanthu Kaathil Vizha Vendum. Kuyil enbathu koovum thanmai konda paravai. Kuyil Kathuma? Antha kathal oli kathukku inimai tharuma? Eppadi?
"Naan Kaathal enum Kavithai thanthen kattilin mele " is a line that must naturally be followed by monai and ethukai Therefore kathal is followed by "karunai"-this is for kavithai ilakkanam. It does fulfill the ilakkanam perfectly. But as to the choice of words, between kavithaikku and karunaikku, I think that is how Kannadasan sees thambathyam, though some may view it differently.
Who gives kathal ennum kavithai on the kattil? The kavithai must be illara sugam. Why was the word "kavithai" used here in the place of thambathyam? Kavithai has 3 basic components-1) Unarchi
2) Vadivam and 3) katpanai. Thambathyam may have these three too, I do not know. The author may know it better.
If you listen to the tape Ilakkiyathil Kathal by Kannadasan you will learn that Kannadasan glorifies women. But cine songs are not totally representative or reflective of Kanndasan's original thoughts.hey are governed by cine story line. In Bagappirivinai Kannadasan has used "kanavan pani seithu" to reflect the story. I think he is perfectly right in the choice of words.
Bharathiyin thagam cannot be expected much in Kannadasan, as Kannadasan was not Barathy's dasan. He was Kannan's dasan. SO you could onle expect Kannan's thaakkam. That may be the reason as to why we see tons of passion in his songs. Kannadasan was once asked as to why he uses much passion in his songs. nd his answer was also most appropriate:
Naan piranthathe "siru koodal pattiyil"
- From: ss (@ 173-154-85.ipt.aol.com)
on: Wed Jul 15 00:01:27 EDT 1998
Nice explanation about Kaathal ennum kavithai...
No wonder since he was kannan's dhaasan the choice of words also were very much in the same lines
"Aathiram yenbathu penkalukku ellam aduppadi varaithaanee"
Well, if kannadasan has said these words to kannaki probably my city would have been saved.
(Or she would have come to chennai and burnt kannadasan also who knows)
Still not able to understand the perfect choice of "Kanavan pani seithu". Kanavan oonamutravan. He needs thunai both physically and mentally am i right? And what is wrong in violating ethukai monai, if the words were more powerful? Governed by cine choice. Probably right. But is it not expected out of a poet of his nature to rise above those Choices
Sorry for the digression...but pattukottai was given a situation. He was asked to write a duet song.
"Kaadu vilanchathu machchaan nammakku kayyum kaalum thaane micchcham"
Penn inge kelvi ketkiral. Not Aththan innaikku enna kuzhambu vaikattum. But she is asking question on socialism. Not only that, by asking that question , aval aanai thoondukiraal.
It was a spontaneous line by pattukottai, as we all know about him.
Probably these choice of words by kannadasan are also spontaneous bcos as u said he is "Kanna" dhaasan
After listening to all these, even his song on sooryaKaanthi
"Paramasivan Kazhuthil irunthu"... looks like a dig at women(Sorry for always looking in the wrong side)
Does the line"Yaarum irukkum idathil irunthukondal
yellam sowkyame. Garudan sonnathu athil artham ullathu" meant for women? They should know their place???
I dont know.
Manisekaran, also could you please list some kannadasna songs on other samuthaaya karuthakkal?(Thozhilar puratchi, samudhaya marumalarchi, mooda pazhakaa vazhakkangal....)
I dont know much about that but i am eagarly looking for it.
- From: ss (@ 173-154-85.ipt.aol.com)
on: Wed Jul 15 00:07:42 EDT 1998
By the way, if he writes songs on cine choices and other pressure
Why this hype? why this hungama? when someone compares him with VM or Vaalee.
Everyone is compelled by some choices and situation am i right?
You may say in the given choices and situation he delivered the best. who knows?
Had pattukottai had been alive for more years, probably we will not be disucssing Tamil film lyrics under tamil film music page,rather it would have been discussed in schools and colleges and universities..
- From: ss (@ 173-127-216.ipt.aol.com)
on: Wed Jul 15 00:30:45 EDT 1998
And as for as "Kaththum Kuyilosai"
Probably for Bharathi
"Paththini penn pakkathil irukkayil aval kural mun
kuyilosai kooda kaththalaha padukiratho ennavo"
(He asks for a "Paththi penn" in the previous lines
- From: Manisekaran (@ bat-48-194.tm.net.my)
on: Wed Jul 15 08:29:06 EDT 1998
1."Kanavan Pani Seithu" does include serving the oonamutra husband both physically and mentally.
2. Aathiram Enbathu aduppuvarai was a song to describe a lady who, in the eyes of Kamal had lost the 4 virtues of acham naanam madam and payippu. So once again it was not Kannadasan's own thoughts, but storyline that demanded for this. Sine you menti0oned of Kannagi burning down Madurai, I recollect having seen Poombukar over TV recently.As a literature student I felt that Kanruanithi had violated the creation of Ilankovadikal. While Ilanko mentions the actual reason for the burning of Madurai, Karunanithi gives some other reason. Is this pagutharivu or blasphemy of Silappathikaram?
3. The song Kaadu Velanchenna by Pattukkottai K.Sundram was not written for the cinema. It was a poem that he wrote in a magazine(Janasakthy?) for Pogal. MGR got PKKS to change portions of it for Nadodi Mannan.
4. I missed Sooriyakanthi. So I may not comment on that song situation. But paramasivan kazhuthil irunthu is a universal philosophy, need not be restricted to women.
5.About Kannadasan's samuthaya karuthukkal, please refer to the archives for a discussion opened by Kanchana entitled Samuyhaya karuthukkal. That contains sufficient info.
6. Certainly Pattukkottai is a great poet, as admitted by Kannadasan himself. While PKKS had the tremendous capacity to touch on all fields, he chose to emphasise on samuthya paadalkal-socialistic themes owing to the strong influence by P.Jeevanatham, the leader of Communist Party. In so far as samuthaya padalkal is concerned PKKS is by far the very best. Kannadasan and PKKS did enter into healthy contest. When Kannadasan was writing dialogue and songs for Mahadevi, he requested PKKS to write songs in the same movie. That was how these songs were written by PKKS:
1.Kurukku Vazhiyil vaazhvu thedidum.
3. Sevai seivathey aanantham
Similarly when the film Thanga Pathumai was in production, PKKS was tolod to write the songs, but he requested the director to bring in Kannadasan. That is how the song Varukiraal Ummai Thedi was written by Kannadasan. The last film where they worked together was Bagappirivinai.
7. Pattukkottaiyar's songs Chinna Payale Chinna Payale as well as Thoongathey Thambi thoongathey were already in school syllabus in my country. Kannadassn's songs like Boojiyathitkulle Oru Rajyathai Aandukkondu as well as Padithathinaal arivu petror aayiramundu went one step higher to be included in University syllabus. While Kannadasan was alive 3 university students wrote thesis on his songs. After his death 36 thesis had been produced, even from Kerala. What I am saying is that if we go into "ifs and buts and supposing etc" ther could be no end.
8. I agree that Kannadasan should not be compared with any other cine poets, because Kannadasan is simply incomparable. Many were brought to suppress Kannadasan, but finally they all collapsed in the presence and power of Kannadasan. Vali was groomed by MGR but Vali openly admitted the supremacy of Kanndasan. Alangudy Somu and Mayavanathan also were brought to suppress Kannadasan. Thy too felt their incompetency. In fact Kannadasan has corrected their lyrics.
The greatness of Kanndasan is that he openly admits his mistakes, but others are over defensive of their mistakes and tend to justify their mistkes. In any case given any situation Kannadasan has come out with the best products.
9. LATEST: For a long time Vairamuthu has been enjoying the limelight of Kannadasan by using the title of "KAVIYARASAR" Sivaji Ganesan, my favourite actor has very foolishly mentioned that had Vairamuthu been born ahead of Kannadasan he would have toppled Kannadasan. Sivaji must be senile, as he has forgotten the contributions of Kannadasan to his rise in cine field in ways more than one. Anyway ever since Sivaji opened pandora's box, it was Vairmuthu who received tremendous attack. He just relinquished the "KAVIYARASAR" title-a title that was conferred by some businessmen. Thank you Vairamuthu for this noble gesture.
10. You have admitted that you are always seeing the wrong side of women. Please concentrate on the better sides in the spirit of -Kurai naadi kutram naadi gunam naadi mikka kolal"
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