Chitra - Greatest female singler ever to grace TFM?. Is she better than SJ,PS and others?.

Chitra - Greatest female singler ever to grace TFM?. Is she better than SJ,PS and others?. Chitra - Greatest female singler ever to grace TFM?. Is she better than SJ,PS and others?.

Topic started by easwaran Hariharan (@ amex.proxy.lucent.com) on Fri Aug 15 11:43:59 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Responses:

Old responses
From: rajaG (@ ip211.kansas-city3.mo.pub-ip.psi.net) on: Sun Mar 14 02:30:45 EST 1999

Oh BTW Karthi,

Obviously you have found those 'easily' discernible qualities/expression in PS's singing which were unique to each actress for whom she was singing. Just going by your list, (KRV, Savithri, Saroja Devi, Devika, Padmini, Sridevi) please list out those unique six qualities/expressions she used which even ordinary listeners could identify, yet stubborn mortals like me cannot. If you don't, a casual surfer might (only might) think that you are listing these for arguments sake, and do not have substantial evidence. Tell me it is not so, Karthik.
From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com) on: Sun Mar 14 08:47:21 EST 1999

RajaG, true. SPB is the King of Expressions. remember "ada inrikkum enrikkum nalla nAL dhAn" in rAkkammA kayya thattu.Typical rajnikant pronunciation.
From: karthi (@ lab5.theatrium.net) on: Sun Mar 14 21:55:16 EST 1999

Oh rajaG, how will I explain those? For that you have to listen to the songs and see them on screen to appreciate them better. While the difference in the voice modulation can be heard, the nuances can be appreciated better only when you see them on screen. Neenga naa sonnadhai statistics maadhiri eduthuttirukkeenga, six qualities-nu ellaam list panna solli. I think when it comes to music it's more to do with heart and intuition than numbers or saying 'this-is-what-it-is' right? If you don't mind, mudhalla atleast naa list paNNiyirukkira songs-aiyaavadhu thirumbavum kEttu paarunga. Athukku konja naaL aagumnu ninaikkirEn. Naa solradhai thappa eduthukka vEnaam please.

Never. Never. Never. Just arguments sake argue paNra aasaami naa illa. And tell me why would I want to do that? Oru naaL rendu naaL kEttO mathavanga solradhai mattum nambiyO indha mudivukku naa vandhadhillai. It's a lot and lot and lot of listening to PS's songs and watching them on screen!

As I told you, those songs are only a handful of what I've felt. Though I cannot exactly put in words, I have seen a constant pattern when she sings for a particular heroine and she has similar patterns for different heroines.

TMS aLavukku obvious-aa irukkaadhunnudhaan naa sollittEnE! Ennaa TMS voice was identified to suit distinctly MGR and Sivaji! Appadi paartha PS had a tough time because there were lots and lots of heroines surfing the film industry from time to time. That's why I said the difference will not be so obvious unless you see them on screen! But inspite of all this, yes, she did have a distinct mark for KRV and Savithri. A distinct style for Jayalalitha. A nuance in the pronunciation for Saroja Devi.

Adding to that list....

Aandavanin ThOttathilE for pramiLa and Moothaval Nee Koduthai for Jayachitra in ArangEtram.
From: rajaG (@ ip196.kansas-city8.mo.pub-ip.psi.net) on: Mon Mar 15 00:10:59 EST 1999

Karthi,

Thanks for your pleasent response. uNmai! I have to listen to most of those songs more than once to find out if there are any subtle nuances. Unfortunately, I do not have a major collection of PS's old songs but when I get the time I will try to get some. Till then, I will respect your opinion and leave it at that. Honestly, I have met too many 'prajaigaL' who admire 'the emperor's new clothes' that I have become slightly disillusioned. But, till I have had an opportunity to listen to more PS, I will refrain from accepting or disputing her talents to include 'actress specific' expression. Fair?
From: karthi (@ lab1.theatrium.net) on: Mon Mar 15 00:29:36 EST 1999

rajaG, was I very unpleasant in my previous responses? True, I was annoyed when you said you can't make TMS guilty of having changed his voice to suit MGR and Sivaji! I can also accept if you can't comply with me on that for PS but never for TMS because he did change the way he sang for them. He usually sings very lightly with a very slight nasal touch for MGR. He sings from his stomach when he sings for Sivaji. He sings from his throat with a tinge of youthfulness when he sings for JaiShankar. I am very sorry if I had sounded offensive.
From: karthi (@ lab1.theatrium.net) on: Mon Mar 15 00:48:38 EST 1999

RajaG, orE nimisham, just now I saw your posting on the previous page and was really hurt to read your lines "...far inferior" when you compared SPB with TMS. I think we should definitely avoid such explicitly sweeping comparisons. For one, they had different voice cultures. You can compare SPB's voice with an other similar voice like Md. Rafi's or Yesudas - because all these were low piteched, base voices. But you cannot compare them with TMS. TMS voice was very high pitched and almost all of his songs were so. May be you are not used to listening (a lot) to him. Since our liking is usually based on what we grew up listening mostly to, I think it is very much possible that you never liked TMS voice. But please never under estimate his voice. There is not a single expression that he has not or could not express in his songs! He was not good in singing jathis like thakajam jam jam kind (which SPB excells in) but he was the only versatile singer before SPB who could sing any kind of song...for that matter. Please don't ever compare his expression with anyone else's. I have never found him to be less expressive than SPB or any other singer. (Don't take into account the songs which he sang in later years I mean in the mid and late 70's - even in those songs he never failed in his expression). EngE oru "engE nimmadhi" or "ennadi raakkamma" vai innoru paadagarai paada sollunga paarppOm!
From: rajaG (@ kcecfp02.sprint.com) on: Mon Mar 15 08:24:03 EST 1999

karthi,

I will respond to your post soon. Unfortunateley, I have some deadlines and I will get to this topic as soon as I have taken care of them.

Raja
From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Mon Mar 15 15:03:37 EST 1999

RajaG, karthi and others.... focus more on PS plz.. u guys are digressing to SPB-TMS comparison now.. the earlier postings on PS were good.. continue your discussions on those issues
From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Mon Mar 15 19:07:40 EST 1999

just oru outburst adhu chandy, mathapadi I'll be happy to post my findings about PS's singing...
From: SM (@ nat01smurugap.sgum.mci.com) on: Mon Mar 15 21:22:14 EST 1999

Hi,

One more digression. Hope you guys don't mind.

Karthi,

TMS pramaadhamaana singerdhaan othukkiraen. But, his english pronounciation is horrible :-)) Happened to listen to 'oru raaja raaniyidam" ('Sivanda Mann') yesterday. In that PS sings, "naaLoru meni pozhudhoru vannam, I love you". Follows our man, "nee oru roja naan oru thaeni, I LLOUU YUU". sagikkalai. Thamizh paadagarukku english pronounciation pramaadhamaa irukkanumnu kattaayam illaidhaan. adhukkaaga ippadiyaa. Nija vaazhkayila oru hero heroine kitta ippadi "I Love You" sonnaannaa andha ponnu thiruppi love pannumnaa ninaikkireenga. Aazha vitta podhumnu odidaadhu?
From: eden (@ 202.54.71.156) on: Mon Mar 15 23:09:56 EST 1999

SM
Do anyone in real life sing around with their lovers as shown in TF? I would like to see some of them. It would be real fun and shy away Nagesh and Koundamani!
From: karthi (@ lab2.theatrium.net) on: Tue Mar 16 02:15:49 EST 1999

SM, SPB paadina "I want to be a rich man" -kkum TMS-udaiya "I Love You" -kkum vithiyaasam irundhaalum rendumE sagikkalai sariyaa :-))?
From: raja (@ ws-209-201-91-141.icon.com) on: Tue Mar 16 08:58:13 EST 1999

If you watch Ulagam Sutrum Valiban - lily (or lilly) malarukku kondatam - PS singing Andha Nootrandu - fits so well for Manjula..is it modulation or a freak match ?

TMS singing Mela Nada Mela Nada/Yenge Nimmadhi or Yaar Andha Nilavu and Naan Aanai Ittal or Pavazha Kodiyile - one immediately places the actor.

RajaG, it is difficult to exactly say who PS sang for - IMO one has been listening old TFM for a long time should be to identify the actress by and large.

Andha Oomai Pennalo - one can surely identify Savithri - watch the song just for Savithri's expressive lip sync - Sambhar is another matter :)
From: raja (@ ws-209-201-91-141.icon.com) on: Tue Mar 16 09:00:51 EST 1999

typo :
should read "one who has been listening .."
From: SM (@ nat01smurugap.sgum.mci.com) on: Tue Mar 16 12:27:50 EST 1999

eden,

I do not know about any lovers singing around in real life. But, I think, every person in love can tell "I Love You" to their lover and that is what I meant to say in my earlier posting also. I didn't mean to say that lovers would be singing around in real life.

Karthi,

SPB paadina "I want to be a rich man" kandippa TMS paadinadhu aLavukku mosam illai:-)) Also, his pronounciation had no flaws, right?
From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228) on: Tue Mar 16 12:44:35 EST 1999

SPB's "I want to be a rich man" may be ok, but I have heard many of my north-indian friends criticising some of the SPB numbers in Hindi. In fact, there has been a lot of "tamil kolai" accusations on Udit Narayanans, sadana sargams, ashas and likes! I dont see anything unusual about these criticisms.

Raja, yup. I agree with your observations on placing the song/voice with the actors. TMS did a great job of it. The songs of MGR has distinct style and just by hearing the style of the song and the voice of TMS, one could easily pin point the actor for whom TMS rendered his voice!

Karthi, you should tell us if one could do such an identification with some subtlities in PS songs!

chandy
From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Tue Mar 16 13:08:56 EST 1999

Guys: RajaG has a new thread for discussing TMS and SPB. Pl. continue to do so there. Lets get on with the task of determining the best female singer here.
From: Raj (@ master.hyd.deshaw.com) on: Tue Mar 16 13:23:07 EST 1999

Hmm..Ravi, After 12345 threads comparing A & B , A & B being arbitary variables , with 75648 pages of discussions, none of which led to a agreemant on any minor point even , you are still optimistic about determining something here! Man, do I envy your optimism:)
From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Tue Mar 16 13:47:46 EST 1999

**digression, but I couldn't resist** Raj: I do amaze myself sometimes. In one of the threads I even wrote an imposition 'I will not be so optimistic again' or some such thing. But here I am doing it all over again. It is probably a grain of optimism in all of us that makes life worth living. Don't you labour on in the hope that someday every ARR fan will have a change of heart and start praising IR? :-).
From: karthi (@ lab3.theatrium.net) on: Tue Mar 16 23:49:12 EST 1999

Raj, could we compare Ravi's optimism with one of the good old jokes on The Heights series - I mean, the heights of hope? Could you recall? Ravi :-).

Chandy, Adhaan sollittEnE TMS aLavukku PS modulation obvious-aa theriyaadhadhukku kaaraNam - the number of heroines parading the TF all the time. Yet, she managed to do it. Adhudhaan beautye! You can very rarely point to a song where her voice did not match the heroine! I cannot think of one such song to be honest! Nethu vandha "Poopookkum Maasam Kooda" (appa!!! 10 years aagudhu - nEthu vandhaa maadhiri irukku) Kushbu-kku porundhudhunna, may be it's God's gift!

I can give you some classic examples:

Oru NaaL yaarO - Jayalalitha (Maj Chandrakaanth)
Love Birds Love Birds - SarOja Devi (AnbE Vaa)
NaaLai Indha VElai Paarthu - Vaani Sri (Uyarndha Manidhan)
En VEdhanaiyil - Jayalalitha (Yaar Nee)
SelvangalE - Kaanchana (Shanthi Nilayam)

Raja, I doubt if it can be freak match! You have probably seen Pachai KiLi Muthucharam where PS sings for a foreign (probably singapore?) actress, and ThangathOniyile which she sings for Chandrakala in the same movie!

Chandy, you are right! PS's modulations are subtle bringing in great differences while TMS modulations are obvious because they are deliberate with perfect results! One should see Karpagam, where she sings for K R Vijaya and Savithri, to hear these subtlities.

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