Topic started by SR Kaushik (@ nova1.cs.wisc.edu) on Wed Sep 30 15:21:55 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Let me make one thing clear: I am not against MSV, but am merely curious about this topic.
I have made an interesting observation. We have so many criticisms of IR and ARR, but I've not seen any criticism of MSV. I haven't listened to many MSV songs, but I wasn't very impressed by whatever I have heard on TV. Whatever it is, I cannot imagine that he did not have any musical defects. Could anyone point them out? I am very interested. It might test the "objectivity" of certain "objective" people regarding the IR-ARR "war"(I'm not hinting at anyone, please do not misunderstand this), but nevertheless, I want to pursue this.
- Old responses
- From: Sathish A Great fan of MSV (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Sat Sep 21 15:16:23 EDT 2002
Mani - If Ramamurthi is a better person than MSV, how come MSV succeeded and Rama failed. Rama scored Thanga Surangam after split and MSV scored Kalangarai Vilakkam - KV songs were super hit what about TS?. If a person who has excelent composition style - he will succeed. I will say one more thing MSV was the main composer even during their parity.
Kannadhasan said "Naan arindha md-yil yen thambi Viswanathan pola oru MD-yai ulagil parthathum illai and kettadhum illai".
Every super star of all the time has good sense of music. If u say MGR and Kanadasan were responsible, i agree - bcos their film needs good music score. They extracted what they want from MSV and they knew that they could easily extract from him. Many people has misconception that whenever they talk about MSV Music they think MGR they forget easily Shivaji. I still feel Shivaji films are as punching (are more attractive) as MGR's film. In 80s IR too had Kamal/Rajini/Mohan. Does this mean that IR did not have talent and only Kamal/Rajini/Mohan had talent!! Ur argument is not acceptable.
There were talents - people try to extract them - it is natural.
BTW, Illaiyaraja was not alone my dear - he had his brothers Pavalar (IR's 50% of tunes from Communist party tunes scored by his brother and Gangai). He had Abaswaram Ramji/Siva Mani/TVG/Venkatesh. Looks like U live in a different world.
Ofcourse I can see ur fanaticsm over IR. That is natural bcos ur incorrigible. First accept others also good and that a person who scored 1000s of film music and scored for 4 generations.
When every body was hearing Carnatic Tunes MSV came out with a different tunes (later called light music) and when IR cam people listened to the folk style mixed light music. Now ARR has come with a fusion of folk/carnatic/hindustani/western and what not...
Dont look at things being a fanatic.
Accept cultural changes fact.
The entire tamil world knows about the following fact.
"IR is the second ultimate composer in TFM only after MSV"
Only for u - MSV, IR and ARR. Look at the state of IR, he is in between 2 great masters of all time.
- From: sabesan (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Sat Sep 21 16:57:10 EDT 2002
"IR's 50% of tunes from COMMUNIST PARTY"..... dhodaaa..... meedhi 50% enna, PMK kittaa irundu vandhuchaaa.... yaabaaa..... vitta.... ungallai solli kuthamillaaai.... vaazhgaaa jana nayagaam :-).....
and Satish, let me put ur last sentence in a different way - MSV and ARR are on the sides of IR.....
- From: Mani (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Sat Sep 21 17:47:05 EDT 2002
"The entire tamil world knows about the following fact. "
- The entire Tamil world consists of
Satish, Satish Melum Satish..
Enna kindala.. Illayarajavukku nigaraga yarum illai. He didn't get any help as you said.. hehehe
Even Gangai Amaran steals tunes from Illayaraja..
He is a genius.. Edho therinja madiri pesa vendiyathu. Ramamoorthy illatti Viswanathan govindha in his earlier part. Ramamoorthy trained classical musician. Viswanathan learnt everything after joining him. He gave good tunes.. compared to IR he is nothing. He is nowhere near the class of IR.
"Ofcourse I can see ur fanaticsm over IR."
look who is talking.. ivarudhan manju manju color colora reel vittukittu irukkaru.. Neenga sonna naanga othukkanuma? In what way you are a better music fan than me? tell me.. man.. prove that to me..
- From: Sathish A Great fan of MSV (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Sat Sep 21 22:15:47 EDT 2002
MSV never vanangified IR but IR did to MSV and other MDs who followed him did. This itself enough to prove that "Mellisai Mannar" is the greatest of greats and creamest of creams.
One more thing IR never did to anybody in the TFM world.
I am a great music fan of every MD (as long as they give a better music) with all the proof I have and i already afore said. u r just blindly pethufying - i am IR fan but not a fanatic. I accept the fact. With MSV - no chance. I know each and every action of MSV.
SPB once said in a festival function - "MSV the greatest musician of all time. Ivar pizhindhu, kadithu thuppiya karumbu sakaiyaithaan matra isai amaipalargall thingirargal!!!" -
idhu ondre podhum IR fanatic-ana um pondravargalukku.
- From: Ramesh (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sat Sep 21 23:25:40 EDT 2002
" I know each and every action of MSV. "
- Idu neenga sonna varthai
"u r just blindly pethufying "
- Iduvum neenga sonna varthaidan.
For your first sentence second sentence is the answer.. payangarama unarchivasapattu ularukeergal. Neenga enna just movie list panninnenga.. Adhu oru proofa? I would say Shanker Ganesh is a better musician than MSV forget about IR.. I can say this just like you say MSV is better than IR.. First let MSV meet the standard of Shanakar Ganesh and Deva or even T.Rajendar.. then let him think of meeting the standard of IR.. Indha "vanangified" "kinangified" all those kuzhaindathanamana arguments ellam kadiakku odavathu Raasa.. Avar sonnar Ivar sonnar appaillam solla koodathu.. mattera kavani.. Namma IR thalaivar madiri oru symphony poda mudiyuma..
"Mellisai Mannar".. that's all not "Isai Gnani"..
There is a difference between "Light Music King" and "Maestro"... I think apt comparison for MSV would be either ARR or Deva or Shankar Ganesh.. If you start comparing MSV with ARR, Deva, Shanker Ganesh.. i will take the side of MSV.. Deal?
- From: Sathish A Great fan of MSV (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Sun Sep 22 09:43:12 EDT 2002
this board is full of 70s and 80s "kuzhandhailgal". let me take a break. better luck IR fans - hopefully next time IR beat MSV.
Again the title of this fourm is "Did MSV have ANY musical defects?" - I said NO NO NO NO.
IR Fanatics - u will always be incorigible like ur guru. No respect for others full of egotism egoism and what not!! - Bottomline is "respect" others - u will automatically grow.
No wonder why IR was dumped by So many super stars, super directors and super producers.
I cant repeat what I said before. Dont see only this page and go see the old responses of mine.
U will come to know.
BTW, shankar ganesh - shshyas of MSV.
Next generation IR is shishya of prev gen GKVenkatesh. Prev Gen GKVenkatesh is a shishya of The greatest of the greats - u heart tells - i dont have to spell his name.
Without Guru no shishya. "Kathukkoduthavanukke vidhaya"?
BTW, IR learnt Sympho after listening to Mozart/Beethovan. Probably he would have copied their symphony or some xyz from Europe. IR had lot of friends in Europe. So they probably would have guided him. Dont say he is genius.. he did not know even how to play harmonium my dear.
Our "Kannanur" petai dhadha is king of all.
- From: sabesan (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Sun Sep 22 10:32:15 EDT 2002
Satish - u know what is funny - in most part of ur above posts, we can remove "IR" and substitute with MSV..... and still what u said will be true.... like "No wonder why IR was dumped by So many super stars, super directors and super producers" - by ur logic, were the directors/starts of MSV era dumped MSV too ?
and wait, b4 u get me wrong, MSV is a LEGEND and so is IR.....
and ur logic about *respect* is totally void - without respecting others a man could not have stood the test of time for 25 years.....
- From: SatishFan (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Sun Sep 22 10:39:49 EDT 2002
Okay..MSV is great..but why was he working for IR ? Or was he just helping out the 'kid' or teaching him nuances of music !!
- From: OISG (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Sun Sep 22 10:56:34 EDT 2002
Though i have more or less the same likes and dislikes as you have i clearly differ from your views on IR.
He was a good music director.He brought in enough variations in music to sustain and excel till Rehman took over ...almost for a period of 12 years he simply ruled.(1976-80 Visu was very much there but from Payangal mudivathillai he was the one man army till 1992 Roja.there were occasional token fights offered by Visu till 1984 and Maragathmani is 1990-91)
This Communist party tunes,abaswaram Ramji,Sivamani contributions are purely your imaginations.VSN and TVG were just there when his music happened.Even without them he would have been successful. If communist party had that number of tunes then you wont see its wings like DYFI begging for alms at every junction!!.
If you happen to listen to commie songs ...well Even Sirpy would become your Mozart subsequently.The Gaddhar (Telugu) commie songs are more serious jokes!!!
IR was a well trained musician apart from being a natural...When MSV and Rehman are just naturals.
Our objection should be only to a small group of fanatical HCIRF who get "Rajaparvai" when it comes to other MDs.
You don t the do want you don t want them to do!
- From: OISG (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Sun Sep 22 10:58:30 EDT 2002
Sorry for the "Extra" " the" in the last line.
- From: OISG (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sun Sep 22 11:48:40 EDT 2002
To be precise
"IR than ulagileye thalai sirantha MD" endru solvathu evvaluva abathamo athe alavu abatham "avarukku music theriyathu enbathu".
He had tremendous scores and Directors were with him for a long time.He brought in more WCM based orchestration.
Now coming to MSV s defects i had all laong thought that he never used "Vivadhi" ragas like IR "Naatai"( Pani Vizhum),"Rasigapriya"(Sangeethame) ,Kanagangi( Mogam ennum theeyil).
Though SL came out with answers can somebody really list and establish MSV s use of Vivadhi swaras usage.
- From: Awe (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Sun Sep 22 12:42:24 EDT 2002
Good OISG... you are doing a good service..
If Satish came out with appreciation of his song on a technical level without comparing anyone, defenitely there would have been more active participants. MSV surely gave wonderful tunes.
But this Satish pointlessly kept on adding fuel to fire with lame arguments. Good luck for this thread. I expect far better inputs to this thread as i respect MSV as much as i respect IR.
- From: Awe (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Sun Sep 22 12:46:11 EDT 2002
One more thing.. Did MSV have any defects.. should not become a thread to degrade IR's works.
". he did not know even how to play harmonium my dear. "
Stupid arguments like this will only make IR fans go at MSV and his fans. Hope better sense prevails from now on.
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