Topic started by Vijay (@ 188.8.131.52) on Tue Nov 14 08:16:24 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Why do music directors make these silly errors that ruin great songs? There have been many songs in Tamil Films with great tunes that have been ruined by silly errors on the parts of the Music Directors.
I think A R Rahman does this very often. For example, in the "Kandukondain Kandukondain" album, the "Kandukondain Kandukondain" song has been ruined by bad orchestration and the female singer Mahalaxmi. "Konjum mainaakazh..." was also ruined by Sadhna Sargam's pronunciation (and her voice, but in "Snaehidhanae..." from "Alaipaiyuthey..." she sounded quite good. The song "Dandiya aatam aada..." from "Kaadhalar Dhinam" also suffered similarly because of Kavitha Krishnamoorthy's voice (avungalaam yaen paada varaanganae thereela) and also the beats change halfway through the song and then back again, which sounds very wierd when you're listening to the song (that is something A R Rahman does very often).
Of course, Ilayaraajaa has also done this many times by singing his songs himself. "Indha maan..." from "Karahaata kaaran" was ruined both by Ilayaraajaa's voice and the bad picturization (what was worse about that film was the fact that we had to watch Kanagaa and Raamaraajan in love, but that's a different thing). I think that with the talents of S P Balasubramaniam, K J Yesudas, Jayachandran and others, Ilayaraajaa could have done a better job. He has also used S Janaki a bit too often, when he could have used Chitra (IMHO, Chitra has the second sweetest voice ever heard in Tamil Films.)
In "Paarthein Rasithein" Vasundra Das's voice and pronunciation have ruined the "Poovae punnagai kaattu" song (Vasundra Das is another singer who should be banned from singing in Tamil films, if not from singing itself). I think Harini should have been used for that song.
There are numerous other errors which have ruined good songs, but why do music directors keep making these mistakes again and again?
- From: Ahmed Ansari (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Tue Nov 14 10:18:03 EST 2000
For that matter P.Suseela's niece Sandhya, who sang Deepangal Pesum and Pookkodiyin Punnagai has crystal clear voice than any other singer around..Iam quite surprised why they go towards north when there are ample talents down south..Even IRand ARR,why do they spoil their own composition by wrong choice of singers...Tamil language has uniqe pronounciation beauty which is killed by this ALIENsingers...Can you imagine..Asha bonsle AND Sadhana sargam singing the song...Punnagai Mannan Poovizhi Kannan Rukmanikkaga...From Iru Kodugal..Most ofARR'S recent songs are spoilt ones in this regard...
This comes from real ARR fan..
- From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Wed Nov 15 00:38:15 EST 2000
I too agree with Ahmed Ansari. But it depends more on the Singers' devotion towards the song. SPB, KJY, PJ, SJ, Chitra all are alien singers to Tamil Films. But they didnt kill the songs like what Sadhana, Kavitha, Udit, and all are doing now. I feel the MD can ask them only some extent the rest depends on the singers.
- From: jey (@ )
on: Sun Jan 21 08:31:21 EST 2001
I am entirely against the opinion of vijay...actualy speaking these new voices have brought in some kind of choices or infact variety in the good old tamil film songs where we kept hearing to the same old voices again and again singing wihtout any difference in there tone or pitch from song to song....
These new voices as yo had pointed out may not have the right pronounciation but has defenitly broken the monotonous voices.
- From: Karthik (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sun Jan 21 23:59:40 EST 2001
Dont agree with the first 3 msgs. Listen to any of the popular KJ Jesudoss hindi songs and you could find heavy duty malayalam accent in his hindi.
Guys, this is one damn country, but unfortunately we have 'n' number of languages within us. Now if you gonna banish one non-tamil singer 'cos he/she has bad tamil pronunciation, I'm sorry we are heading nowhere. Its not as if we dont have enough good singers in tamil. Its just a matter of variety.
In any case they arent made to sing thevaram or thiruppavai. When they in fact are made to sing those, I'd be the fisrt one to protest. But this is just film music. And film music is just a pastime...for fun. Whats the big deal if Sadhna Sargam kills tamil in konjum mainakale (your opinion :-). Listen to it if you need to, if you dont like switch it off and try listening to another song which has a tamil singer.
If you are intent on taking film songs to another fascist angle....i pity you guys.
- From: Omega (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Mon Jan 22 00:25:01 EST 2001
Jollyaa enjoy pannunga ella paattayum!
romba analyse panninaa bore adichirum
- From: veerapaandi (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Mon Jan 22 02:58:35 EST 2001
- From: iloveraja (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Mon Jan 22 21:33:04 EST 2001
IR voice is best suitable for actors like Ramarajan,Murali etc., and best suitable for situation like Nayagan,Eajamaan etc.,
- From: kozhupps (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Mon Jan 22 23:20:47 EST 2001
at the first glance, I read your name as 'ezhavuraja'
- From: S (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Tue Jan 23 03:48:27 EST 2001
arr did this to an otherwise wonderful song...
oyA..AyE....OyA..ayE (second interlude) in thaniyE thannanthaniyE which was in all other aspect (including cinematography & choreography) a good number.
- From: UV (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Mon Jan 29 14:20:43 EST 2001
Even IR makes mistakes and he has infact lightly spoiled the song 'Enthan Nenjil Neengatha' from Kalaignan
well if you listen to the song you will observer the beat for the song doesnt come to Samam basically it doesnt fit in place
- From: kiru (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Mon Jan 29 16:13:38 EST 2001
Can you explain this in less technical terms ? I thought this song was a good example of usage of electronic drum (synth drum kit). All other instruments were acoustic.
- From: vijay (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Mon Jan 29 16:58:39 EST 2001
Well this topic by nature precludes discussion of SAR or Deva songs, because to ruina great song, a song has to be great to begin with :-) and there arent many great songs from these blokes to discuss.
Many of the recent examples that i can give pertain to ARRs songs. these are my subjective opinions:
1. "porakalam inge" start was great, reminded u of "vizhiyil vizhundu" from alaigal oivathillai but then the interludes and the charanam take the 'feel' away from ths song. sustaining the mood of the song is something , I believe, ARR has yet to master.
2. ditto for snegidhane. a great start but a spoiled charanam.
3. Humma Humma - an abrupt pop-like scale change after the first charanam(?) spoils the mood somewhat.
4. malargale malargale - after the pllavi ends why suddenly all that percussion(in fact its the same beat/percussion that was used in the prelude of akkadaannu naanga nada potta)
5. Thaniye thanath thaniye - ditto as in 1 and 2. when he starts singing 'october maathathil andhi mazhai' u feel that he has spoiled agreat start. the melody which is 'intense' in the pallavi(actually very similar to 'ponvaanam panneer thoovuthu' from indru nee nalai naan) is diluted and the song is given a pop-like feel in the charanams.
either it should have been givena pop-like feel right from the beginning since it was picturized on a dance or the melody should have been maintained throughout.
Regarding IR's songs..IMO, making bhavathaarini sing that classic song 'alaimeedhu vilayaadum' is a great sin :-)this song is from kaadhal kavithai
I will never excuse IR as a fan for doing this. swarnalatha would have made this songa classic. it was a "maalayil yaaro"-type number and the interludes feature great violins with a vintage IR touch.
Other examples include other great songs sung by Bhava or IR :-)
- From: aruLaracan (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Mon Jan 29 21:10:05 EST 2001
:-)). the drums nallAvE samaththil thAn varugirathu, UV. the whole song uses 16 beat patterns/loops. the accent is not on the 1st/5th/9th/13th beats but varies between the third and the fourth (and multiples thereof). ir does this in many songs. this is one of his masterpieces. does the mirudhangam fall on samam in kARROdu kuzalin nAdhamE of kOdai mazai? what about the mirudhangam prelude to ennuLLE ennuLLE in vaLLi?
- From: BPS (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Fri Feb 2 20:24:23 EST 2001
I am the webmaster of the official Sirkali Home Page. This is to inform fans of Drs. Sirkali that the web address has changed from
http://www.icdc.com/~sirkali (or w3)
Please change your bookmarks to point to this new link.
Thank You very much,
Balaji Pratap Sirkali
- From: mangiya nila (@ )
on: Wed Apr 16 11:26:07 EDT 2003
i encourage hindi singers singing in tamil as we see elegant change in the tamil songs. Udit Narayan for instance has a different blend of voice which does great wonders in tamil songs. Examples of the great songs in tamil he rendered are like "kathal pisaasey" "vena-vena" "ithunondu muttatile" "ela machi-machi" and some others.
i enjoy the songs just like some of u who asked not to analyse the songs too much but the songs goes into the ear and i cant help being somewhat disappointed when my tamil words are being "bulldozed". welcome and sing our tamil songs, the music directors then has to take and retake till all words are clearly audible and clean.
why say about hindi singers alone. u guys say illayaraaja sings badly. i am an ardent fan of SP Bala, listen to his few songs lately and u will feel that he is as same. Have u listen to his songs like "Pen oruthi" with bad pronounciation at saranam. I laughed at his song "sivappu lolakku kulunguthu-kulunguthu" at the pallavi...it should be "yaanai" (elephant) and our genious is saying "aanai" then at the saranam he was saying something and i couldnt get it where i had to rewind and rewind to get the word right but alas i only get exhausted. the strange thing is that this so called "paadum nila" is singing this particular verse twice after a beat and still "olaruran" the same undefine word.
too much laughing during rendering songs also destroy lyrics. Sp bala was good in the 80s and early 90s but i do not know what went wrong with him now. Maybe age is catching up with him or maybe our friend has been thinking no one dare to point his mistake.
- From: Lankan tamilan (@ )
on: Wed Aug 6 13:52:14 EDT 2003
Hi Mangiya Nila it is a pity that you don't know that "anai" is a synonym for "yanai" :elephant
Tamil naddaukaranukke sariya thaizh pronounce pann theriyathy, pinna en hindi kararai patri pesuvan!!
Come to Sri lanka and learn Tamil.
- From: x (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Wed Aug 6 15:02:48 EDT 2003
Mangiya nila, it's so funny that you accuse SPB for tamizh pronounciation... ellam neram! Just to let you know, sometimes when you sing, you tend to pronounce a few letters not so properly and it happens to any singer. Adhu avasarathil nigazhum chinna mistake. It's just a matter of doing another 'take'. But for north singers like udit, sadana... suttu poattalum 'vallinam' varaadhu. And about 'zha'... ketkave venam!
Udit narayananai avaroda peyarai thamizhil ezhudha sollunga. Sathiyama theriyadhu. Kuraindha patcha thamizh kooda theriyaadha avar thamizhil ippa oru periya singer... Thamilizhil
avar paadattum. vendam endru yaarum solla villai.. aanal thamizhai katru kondu paadattum.. That's the mimimum justice he must do for his singing profession.
Lankan tamilan, idhudhane venanguradhu.. Tamil naattu karangalukku tamizh pronounce panna theriyadhu endru general-la solladheenga sir... Srilankan tamils-kku thamizh knowledege niraiyave irrukku. I accept it. But when it comes to pronounciation, sorry my friend....
- From: henry (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Mon Aug 11 13:13:01 EDT 2003
ALL THOSE OF YOU WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT BAD SINGING PLEASE THINK FOR A MINUTE WHETHER YOU WILL BE ABLE TO MAKE JUSTICE B4 THE MIKE AND THEN COMPLAIN!!!!!
- From: x (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Mon Aug 11 15:57:05 EDT 2003
You don't have to be a good singer to identify a bad singer.
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