Topic started by Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on Fri Jul 4 21:48:07 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: RR (@ 203.199.213.4) on: Wed Jun 25 01:23:59 EDT 2003
  
  There are accusations like this in almost every thread on MSV-TKR. I wonder how much of this is true!
  RR
  
  
• From: ramesh (@ 202.140.149.65) on: Mon Dec 22 01:23:42 EST 2003
  
  Mr.MRK.Raju
  Thanks for your elaborated story. no one will believe this. Do you think people like balachander/sridhar/AC.Thiruloga chander will allow someone to work with them without music knowledge. whole world will know that only MSV composed tunes right from beginning. MSV gratefully said that he will go along with TK while NSK introduced TK to MSV. Even people like AVM saravanan said lot about music composition of MSV. don't write such absurd against Music genius.
  
  
• From: RR (@ 203.199.213.4) on: Sun Mar 14 23:02:47 EST 2004
  
  Ramesh: MSV detractors would do well to read his biography where the bigwigs (AVM, KB etc.) point out his one unique quality: ability to reel off several tunes for a single song and let the producer/diro decide. May be he had borrowed a lifetime of tunes from TKR and passed them all off as his own!
  RR
  
  
• From: MRK RAJU (@ 24.231.208.223) on: Sun Jul 11 20:42:17 EDT 2004
  
  Ramesh,
  I dont require your certification.Pepole Like Sridhar,Balachandar & AVM's Saravanan does not music,what they want is recogonised Name.
  NSK was greatful along with B.s.Ranga, ALS ,G.N. Velumani,Vedathntham Ragaviahha &Lena Chettiar when TKR agreed to complete unfinished pictures left by CR Subbaraman.NSK forced TKR to go along with MSV when NSK said " you are shy person so to do PRO work ,you go along with MSV".FROM 1951 till 1965 not a single tune was composed by MSV.
  I challange you all sycophants to call MSV in pulic Forum & ask him swaras for any one of the song in " starting from Panam to Chandrodayam" He will bling while TKR can tell swarams for all song as well BGM.
  I have worked with CRS 7 then with TKR.
  MRK Raju
  
  
• From: RR (@ 203.199.213.3) on: Thu Jul 15 23:48:46 EDT 2004
  
  Mr. Raju: Your efforts to argue TKR's case for the due credit that was denied to him is laudable
  but the extent to which you denigrate MSV is laughable. MSV's grasp of music has not only been hailed by producers but musicians such as IR, Madurai GS Mani, PBS and more recently young carnatic musicians like Ananthanarayanan. Also, your reference to Balachander is unwarranted as the best of MSV-KB music came much after the MSV-TKR split.
  RR
  
  
• From: RR (@ 203.199.213.66) on: Sun Oct 3 22:42:53 EDT 2004
  
  Mr. Raju: Yesterday, in Chennai FM, TMS said all the songs in the TKR-MSV era were in fact tuned by TKR. But he added MSV composed the background music. Strangely, another leading singer of the era, PBS, conveyed the diametrically opposite view when I met hin in Woodlands Drive-in a few months back. Interestingly, MSV and TKR have always maintained that they composed together as a team. Wonder where the truth lies!!
  RR
  
  
• From: MRK raju (@ 209.44.12.201) on: Sat Nov 6 18:43:57 EST 2004
  
  RR and others
  I worked with TKr from mid 40s and I have seen him composing tunes from 1948 onwards ,when CRS become sick.CRS will okay TKR's tunes do some changes.This was seen by NSK, ALS.,GN Velumani,VedantamRaghaviyya,BSRanga,Lena Cheetiar of Krishna Pictures M.Natesan and Jupter Pictures .This is reason they all forced TKR to take charge of films signed up by CRS.NSK forced TKR to take MSv along with him to take care of PRO as TKR talks very less.
  In 1949 when SMS Naidu troop was disbanded MSV & GKV were in roads.They approached CRS who threw them out.Again after 15 days MSV came again and CRS shouted at him but TKR advised CRS to keep MSV in troupe to arrange orchestra.This was the reason why TKR was hesistant to team along with him as a co-MD.If CRS was alive for another 15 days he would kicked him out of his troupe for composing tunes for "GENOVA".CRS told us that this fellow does not had any strong basics in carnatic music and how he can be a MD.
  Even after 1951 MSV will arrange orchestra and give some ideas for BGM but TKR's say was final as he used to give swarams to us for BGM.He will listen to tunes from TKR played in violin and repeat the same in harmonium to Directors and singers.
  MSV would not have broken from TKR but for Kannadasan.
  Till August 1965 I have never seen him doing a composing on his own.
  PBS case was different.TKR allways insisted with him to learn carnatic swaras so that he can repeat same played in violin by TKR while singing.In some sings while singing PBS used to do swara bedham which irritated TKR who reacted sharply on him.
  
  
• From: RRA (@ 203.199.213.66) on: Sun Nov 7 23:29:59 EST 2004
  
  Mr. Raju: Your clarifications are valuable and it is indeed unfortunate that TKR has not rec'd due recognition. Possibly, the conferring of the Naushad award a few years back is an implicit recognition of his contribution to the MSV-TKR team.
  RRA
  
  
• From: rs (@ 203.124.0.248) on: Sat Nov 13 21:32:21 EST 2004
  
  It is amazing what the Internet can do to put in perspective the perceived distortion of TKR’s contributions to the golden era of tamil film music. The contributions of various tfmers to this debate have been helpful.
  
  Let me share some vignettes of information on this debate from three tamil books that I recently read.
  
  In the book on MSV’s biography by Rani Mainthan, there is a chapter on VR. Reminiscing about the VR days, MSV was careful not to take sole credit for the VR songs. He mentioned that he and TKR worked as a team, but did not go into saying who did what exactly. Both of them spent a lot of time in coming out with melodious tunes, and that’s why the VR songs are great hits. MSV further mentioned that his success was a team effort. There was not much information on why the duo split. However, it was TKR who broached the subject in 1965 and told MSV that he wanted to compose music on his own. Ironically, it was MSV who raised the subject of reunion with TKR in 1994. When the two met in MSV’s house thereafter, it was a highly emotional reunion. It is of interest to note that when this book was launched recently, many accolades were showered on MSV by industry bigwigs. TKR was present during the launch but when he spoke, it was in very measured tones and he did not go into overdrive.
  
  In an interview sometime back, TKR mentioned that after his split with MSV he did not speak to MSV for nearly 30 years. That says something about the perceived injustices he had suffered.
  
  In the book on TMS by Vamanan, there was a section when TMS reminisced about the VR days. He said that TKR is a musical genius who possessed a mastery of the 72 melakarthas. When MSV and TKR compose music, TMS said that it was TKR who comes out with the tune. TMS, however, mentioned that MSV was good in composing background music for films. In 2002, there was a VR musical function at Dubai for which TMS went. Later, TMS and TKR went for a function organized by the Tamil Sangham. In that function, there was an emotional outburst by TMS when he spoke about the musical genius of TKR and the injustices meted out to TKR by others.
  
  It is pertinent to note that TMS is not given to mincing words and will speak the truth however unpalatable that may be. The remarks of TMS must thus be seen in the light that he has sung for a lot of VR films compared to other artistes, and that he is qualified to comment on this saga by virtue of his long association with VR.
  
  In the book on Naanum Intha Nutrandum by Kavignar Vaali, Vaali mentioned that it was his luck that he was able to compose songs for VR. When composing songs for them, he was careful to mention that it was for the duo. He mentioned that it is best not to go into the reasons for their separation. However, he mentioned that TKR realized the importance of playing the harmonium when it comes to being a music director. Thus, TKR toiled day and night to master the harmonium. Vaali was all praises for TKR’s musical genius even though he acknowledged that MSV was also a musical genius.
  
  In the VR days, both MSV and TKR worked together as a team. Generally, lyrics are written for their tunes. They spent a lot of time in composing tunes as these are often a better indicator of melody. It is then a matter for the lyricist to thread words to fit the tune they have composed. When it comes to contact with producers, directors, and others, it was MSV who will play the tunes on his harmonium. It is clear that TKR was not good in public relations. This arrangement worked well as MSV’s PR savviness and people management skills ensured that VR has a steady supply of work. This is, however, not to belittle MSV’s musical contributions.
  
  In 1999, when VR was in Singapore to be felicitated for their contributions to tfm, it is of interest to note that while MSV spoke often during the event, TKR did not utter a single word. Most of the time, he was busy with the orchestration along with another conductor. MSV was a member of the orchestra playing the harmonium.
  
  It is a pity that the duo split when they were at the peak of their career. Just think of how tfm would have been richer if they had continued to work together as a team. The VR songs have the classical touches of melody, and whilst MSV succeeded on his own, in my opinion, the soft melody was not there in most of his songs, for example, Ulagam Sutrum Vaaliban, Ninaithale Inikum, etc. TKR’s contribution would have made a difference. This is, however, not to diminish MSV’s talent for there are several songs of his that will stand the test of time, for example, those in Apoorva Raagangal, and many other films.
  
  
• From: MRK Raju (@ 141.209.45.187) on: Sun Nov 14 22:26:38 EST 2004
  
  RS&RRA,
  TKR didddddd not broke from MSV in 1965 on his own and nor MSV broke away because TKR become alcholic as mentioned in this forum.The back ground was TKR refused to financeforKannadasan's pictures "Vanambadi" and "Karupppanam".With this grouse in his mind Kannadasan forcrd MSV to spilit from TKR.Kannadasan used his political clout to force all prodcers of those 27 films for which tunes are composed already in August 65 to put only MSV's name in the title.All of sudden in early August MSV told evreyone in the troupe he is splitting from TKR but no mention of films already completed even to TKR.
  We understand when MGR heard this he was angry on Kannadasan & sent word to TKR to meet him to resolve this issue.But TKR didn't respond and lost a golden apporunity.When TKR went to meet him in 1977 in fort for a personal obligation MGR told him "Had you come like this 12 years back your life would have been different".
  Kannadasan realised his mistake after 7 years and told me that he has done harm toTKR,
  Anyway we are very thankful to TMS for telling the truth.
  
  
• From: Chandran (@ 141.209.127.157) on: Tue Nov 16 14:54:51 EST 2004
  
  Despite best effort by MSV and his un-natural companion Kannadasan to hide the great achievements of TKR truth had come out thro TMS and VR troupe players like PLsriramulu,
  MRK Raju,BSDivakar,SG Mangalamurthy,Henry Daniel,BSMuthu,Philips,Sethupathy,PLRajendar
  &Dalapathy.Even GKV once told me in 1973 that he learned all about composing only from TKR & nothing from his friend MSV.ALRaghavan always says TKR is genius but on MSV he keeps mum.
  
  
• From: RR (@ 203.199.213.66) on: Thu Nov 18 22:11:15 EST 2004
  
  Mr. Raju: Was Santoor Visweswaran also in the VR troupe? There was a program on TV by him. As far as I can recollect he did not mention TKR; possibly he joined MSV after 1965. He did mention one Mr. Raju but I am not sure if it was you he was referring to!! Anyway, why not share your musical experiences with us in this or another thread? I would particularly like to know TKR,s approach to such landmark albums as Karnan, Kaadalikka, Neramillai, Nenjil Or aalayam and countless others. Also, how the style evolved from Panam thru Paava Mannippu to Chandrodayam.
  After all, what better tribute can we give to you a musician than (apart from listening) analysing his work?
  RR
  
  
• From: RR (@ 203.199.213.66) on: Thu Nov 18 22:13:12 EST 2004
  
  Correection in previous post: There is no "you" between "to" and "a musician" in the last line.
  RR
  
  
• From: MRK Raju (@ 141.209.45.187) on: Tue Nov 23 18:47:29 EST 2004
  
  RR,
  Iread yr comments.Most important people in VR troupe were not with MSV.Some stayed for a short period with him.I am right now in Michigan US.Iwill return to India shortly when I will share my experience how TKR composed tunes for pictures like PavaMannipu,Malai Itta Mangai,Pudhiyal Devadas,Manamagal Chandiraniand Karnan.Till Pudhiyal TKR was following CRS style except in Devadas(some songs)and Pasavalai. From Pudhyal to Manapandhal it was different style.But from Pavamannipu onwards the method changed to a new one.
  
  
• From: RRA (@ 203.199.213.130) on: Tue Nov 23 23:15:36 EST 2004
  
  Mr. Raju: Looking forward to reading about your
  experiences/ Thanks ( I noticed some time back there is already another RR, so I am changing my initials)!!
  RRA
  
  
• From: RRA (@ 203.199.213.130) on: Tue Dec 7 22:40:53 EST 2004
  
  rs: Your analysis of the MSV-TKR matter is indeed excellent and comprehensive. While your point about the lack of soft melody in MSV's later compositions is well taken, it could partly be the result of changing times. Even in USV, songs such as "Aval Oru Navarasa" and Nilavu Oru Pennaagi or even Lilli malarukku have the old style feel. Intersetingly, while Sathya keerthi in the very first mail in this mater says songs from Anbe Vaa and Kalangarai Vilakkam do not have the same sweetness as MSV-TKR compositions, acc. to Mr. raju, TKR had at least a dominating influence even in those movies! I feel a more careful analysis of the compositions of these masters is required.
  RRA
  
  

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