Topic started by Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on Tue Jul 1 00:53:26 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.

Responses:

• From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Tue Jul 1 01:20:28 EDT 1997
  
  The example of "Iruvar" should answer this question
  
  
• From: Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on: Tue Jul 1 02:40:57 EDT 1997
  
  The movie was a total flop commercially. That was not a good storyline. In fact, I too was feeling atotally disappointed with Mani's offering. It was slow moving, too artistic. I am thinking in terms of real-life dramas comparable to western storylines but adapted to suit the Indian culture--in contrast to predictable make-believe scenarios. That is why I'm asking if the majority of viewers in India will ever get fed-up of the basic routine storyline. It seems that things will never change. Iruvar is not a good example to cite as a reference storyline.
  
  
• From: Rajaraman (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Tue Jul 1 05:07:56 EDT 1997
  
  Iruvar is example for how risky it's to try a very
  different storyline.
  IMO, Indian viewers will always like to taste the same
  wine, maybe in different bottles. Superficially,
  kathal kottai is a different story, but this movie
  too has formula-based ideas. (Imagine
  the telugu filmland case. There'll be 10 superhit
  movies running simultaeneously all with the SAME storyline.)
  
  Namma ooru makkalukku athellaam saripattu varaathu.
  Nonthu poi irukkara producers ithai kettaa, "vithyaasamaana
  storyline-aavathu mannaavathu.."-nu nammala
  adikka vanthuduvaanga.
  
  
  
  
• From: pulambum-rasigar (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Tue Jul 1 06:51:08 EDT 1997
  
  Makkal taste is changing but very slowly...
  
  There used to be a time in early 80's when KB,
  Barathiraajaa, Mahendran, Balu Mahendra were
  making good movies (with out all the above
  mentioned things) like "varumain Niram sigappu",
  "nizalgal", "moodu pani", "uthirip pookal",
  "nandu" - these were also sort of commercially
  accepted by makkal. Those directors (when they
  were NOT deep into commercial thinking) sort of
  shaped the makkal's rasanai. Then came the
  stupidest movie of all time "Sakalakalavallavan"
  which was such a mega hit and completely changed
  the makkal's rasanai. The story was so typical for
  tamil fans but still Makkal (including me) were
  so enthralled by the big budget, kamal's tights,
  kamal's KaithuKatil scene with Ambika, silk's kulungals,
  Raaja's Nethu-Rathir-Yamma-vu..vu..vuvs
  (isainjani eppadi yellam yosithu irukkAr - still
  nobody has beaten those a..aa..aaa...au, am, aha).
  At the same time, another movie from
  Vitalacharaiyar "Jagan Mohini" with
  JeyaMalini (uh..hu..uu..pullarikuthu)
  was also ran for 100days. Athoda, tamil cinemavuku
  iruntha ikonja-nanja standardm olinjathu. elunthu
  nadakumun meendum kiza thalli paduka-vachi-TAINGA.
  
  Ippa recently for the past 8-10 months all
  the movies with-no-story-and-regular-stuff are
  getting flopped, makkal seem really
  bored of repetition. Hopefully this indication/trend will slowly change the direction.
  
  
• From: Padmanabhan Ganesan (@ igw2.merck.com) on: Tue Jul 1 09:44:50 EDT 1997
  
  Just to clarify :
  
  Nizhalgal, Nandu, Varumaiyin Niram Sigappu were mega-flops.
  
  KBalachander has guts : he remade this flop in Hindi where again it was a flop. He did this with Rudra Veena too (Telegu - Chiranjeevi). It was a megaflop but he remade this movie again as Unnal Mudiyum Thambi. You got hand it to him - he has had faith in his viewers - even though they have disappointed him again and again.
  
  
• From: Gokul (@ 204.76.129.252) on: Tue Jul 1 14:13:44 EDT 1997
  
  Veedu from Balu Mahendra is another Example.
  It had great BGM by the way.
  
  Now Balu is sticking to rendu pondatti formula
  and not even attempting to make any difference
  in the Tamil Movie arena.
  
  Mani's movies have been OK but his greed
  for the All India hit status for his film is interfering
  with his creativity.
  
  The movie which differed from the established
  rules recently was Kuruthipunal. But it is not
  original.
  
  Guna was strikingly different but too exotic
  for the masses.
  
  
• From: Ravi (@ eagle.vapower.com) on: Tue Jul 1 14:26:20 EDT 1997
  
  Most of 'Veedu's BGM was from 'How to name it'. Taking about films with different themes in the 80s, Rudraiya's Aval Appadithan deserves a special mention.
  
  
• From: Chandrasekaran (@ h129.n105.ausnet.net.au) on: Tue Jul 1 19:27:58 EDT 1997
  
  Hey, STOP STOP STOP. This is supposed to be the Tamil Film MUSIC (music only) page. Discuss only music, music and music.
  
  
• From: Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on: Wed Jul 2 00:32:24 EDT 1997
  
  Question 1
  I think that the present generation of Tamil cinema music buffs are slowly inclining towards supporting music which can be related closely to western dance and popular music (eg.ARR and thondarghal). Perhaps they feel that this kind of music gives them a chance to say to the world " Hey!Look at my country's music" and show that they too are 'in time' with the times? Are they shying away from the cultural heritage (eg.dapanguthu, folk, classical) because it is not hype?
  
  
• From: Gokul (@ ww-th22.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Jul 2 04:26:02 EDT 1997
  
  It is sad that Indian Music Industry is getting
  more influences from the west now when the music forms in the west are not as great as they were during the last few decades. There had always been some kind of attempt made
  by MDs to be in sync with the Western forms.
  But now it is more perceptible because of
  increased exposure to Western World through
  Cable / Internet. It is in manyways good that
  our folks are getting exposed to different
  forms of music. The same trend is slowly
  emerging in West too. If you listen to Kula Shaker or Def Leppard's latest album (slang)
  you will be surprised to find Hindustani
  music laced with Industrial Rock. One of the
  articles in a local Newspaper mentioned
  that fusion of Indian Music with Rock is very rich in aural pleasures.
  
  It may be too early to say that the music which has our cultural Rubber stamp is dying. If ARR
  is the culprit , his recent songs exonerate him.
  Iruvar, Minsara Kanavu. He has come up with a delightful mix of folksy music with western beats with carnatic undercurrents in ManaMadurai Mamara in Minsara Kanavu. It is only the other
  MDs like Deva who are too worried about the
  trends in the Music than the Music itself. They come up with cRAP. ARR's earlier jingly sounds
  have matured. Ofcourse Raja always gives
  variety
  
  We will have to wait and see how the music industry evolves over the next few years.
  
  
• From: Ramani Raghavan (@ guardian.tekedge.com) on: Wed Jul 2 15:55:27 EDT 1997
  
  I would like to say one thing.. Whatever great ARR may be.. he has no business to do Thamizh Kolai (killing of Tamil words and grammer) Greatest examples are Kuluvaaliley in Muthu (Why should Udit Narayan sing this song with such aweful pronounciation? Also No Problem song in Love Birds (I think it's ARR and Suresh Peters singing with Appache Indian). One can not forget the incident where both KJY and MSV were heavily crisicised for the song Ninaivaaley in Andamaan Kaadali (KJY pronounced Th'i'rukkoviley as Th'e'rukkoviley). Why people are keeping quite now-a-days.. just because Tamil words are being sung in POP/RAP style ??!! Ridiculous and disgusting..isn't it !?
  Please remember the great Tamil songs sung by Asha Bhonsle and Lata Mangeshkar, where I am sure that Raja had taken enough precaution regarding pronounciation problems.
  
  Also I am finding that in ARR's music, the volume goes up and down suddenly. The song Then Then Thithikkum Then in Thirudaa Thirudaa is a classic example. When the Jathi comes the voulume goes up significantly and the female voice is so feeble !(Can any one remember or reroduce the lyrics of thins song ??) This can be noticed in so many other ARR songs too What's your opinion ?
  
  
• From: Gopal Prasad (@ host-207-53-2-187.atl.bellsouth.net) on: Wed Jul 2 16:49:25 EDT 1997
  
  Besides pronunciation, its lyrics too!!What a compromise nowadays! The Great Vairamuthu who gave excellent songs in the past writes "Sindhum Vervai
  Theerthamagum" in Kaadhalan. Why this kind of lyrics? Does writing like this adds to the sex appeal in the song or picturization of the song? It only stinks! And there was another movie called Indhu (Music by Deva?) Poor lyrics, music, etc.,
  Who has the dicta when it comes to correcting certain words? The Director, MD or Lyricist?
  The movie, theme, dialog, etc., might have undergone changes. Technology has improved. The changes in the movies may be due to the so called changing tastes of the audience. But, when it comes to songs, I dont think these producers, directors, MDs have any locus standi to destroy the existing standards under the guise of "changing rasanai"
  Going colloquial in lyrics is different from going vulgar! We have songs like "Vaa vadhyare vootanda
  nee varaangatti naa vudamaaten" which really reflects the Madras "tamil" and Ilay was responsible for bringing in a major shakeup in the
  lyrics domain. From "Orambo, Orambo, rukumani vandi varuthu..." till date, lyricists have maintained a simple, intelligible language!
  I do have differences when it comes to Asha or Lata singing tamil songs! With due regards to their musical genius, I just could not stand
  the pronunciation of tamil words by Asha especially in a beautiful song like "Oh Butterrrrfly" There seems to be some kind of difficulty for the Northern belt singers in delivering the tamil songs! preetha uttam singh was really good in Kaadhal Vaanile in Raasaiyah (Great song!!)
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Wed Jul 2 17:04:19 EDT 1997
  
  Ramani,
  I agree with you. In most of ARR's songs, the lyrics are not audible. Even vairamuthu's kavidhai gnanam has gone very kocchai . In the song "ennavale", the lyrics like "kokilame oru kural koduthal unnai kumbittu kannadippen"... and so on. The song has a very good tune but the words make it impossible to hear. Even such lyrics could be observed in songs like chikubuku chikubuku rayile in Gentleman...
  
  
• From: Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on: Thu Jul 3 00:01:21 EDT 1997
  
  I see that of late, a lot of western rock and modern pop songs use the microtonality feature of carnatic or Hindustani music. Yes, microtones give a distinctive and relaxing (maybe a bit of 'psychadelic') quality to a melody line just as certain ragas do. Remember the 60's when the west adopted the Hippie culture...what kind of music was regarded as hip then..
  It's all in a repetitive cycle.
  The question of including sexually suggestive or explicit meaning in songs has a lot to do with the listening public. Although most of us seem to despise double meaning lyrics, we secretly like it because back in our heads, ALL of us have some kind of sexually oriented thought going on given any time. Come on guys..be truthful. Don't be hipocrites. It's normal. Otherwise, the human population would cease to exist. What's wrong with a bit sexual suggestiveness (although I agree sometimes, it can reach a stage where it's too explicit to be heard with a group of people). Sexual suggestiveness has been part of the human culture ever since.
  Different cultures developed due to the fact that human groups were spread out throughout the world for a long period of time and communication was minimal between these communities. As communication technology becomes more and more advanced, distance between communities is reduced the world becomes 'smaller'. Culture and technology is on a course, fusing and blending, taking what's good and discarding what's bad, resulting in a 'Uniform culture'. Music too is part of culture and is no exception to this transition. It is whether we as the future are prepared to accept the changes constuctively or are we going to keep on holding to our so-called 'heritage' and refuse to budge.
  
  
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Thu Jul 3 17:56:21 EDT 1997
  
  Man is a social animal. Sex is the nature of all living organisms. So, this is not the topic being discussed. Anything in the world can be relished only if it is presented in a gold platter. Gold has to be polished and diamond has to be struck to make it acceptable.
  
  Double meaning songs and lyrics are not new to Film industry or even our lives. The fact is that how it is made acceptable to the public. Music is heard to relax. When you hear words in music which disgust you, there is no way you can relish it.
  
  The line "Sinthum viyarvai theertham aagum"will not be told to any lover as that is unacceptable to a civilized man.
  
  There are songs which convey the intimacy between a man and a wife and still are acceptable.
  
  So, TFM is not out of romantic songs which express intrinsic feelings of a man or a woman.
  Examples can be;
  1) chinna rasave sittarembu enna kadikuthu
  2) roja ondru mutham ketkum neram
  3) aayiram thamari mottukale
  4) masi masam aalana ponnu
  5) aathadi pavada kathhada
  6)aasaya kathule thoothu vittu
  7) rathiriyil poothirukkum thamarai than penno
  8) megam karukkaiyila pulla dhegam kulirudhadi
  9)ennulle ennulle (Valli)
  10) ada rakkoli koovum neram(mavarasan)
  11)om namaha (nenjathai killadhe)
  12) thoongatha vizhigal rendu
  
  And so on......
  
  
• From: Guru (@ proxy.unicentre.edu.au) on: Sat Jul 5 00:04:00 EDT 1997
  
  'Sinthum Vaervai..Theertham Aaghum..'
  I think no lover will tell others the things he says to his mate. It is all done behind closed doors, and the things said and done kept a secret between two people. Especially in our culture, sexual explicitness is considered taboo when heard aloud, but what happens when you're alone ... you see your 'true self' in the mirror. We are all 'actors'. We act as a child, we act as a student, we act as an employee, we act as a parent, a lover and the list goes on as we grow and accept various responsibilities in life. So, please don't generalise what is civilized and what is not. God knows what each one of us are capable of when we display no inhibitions whatsoever. The only difference being to what degree each of us display this emotional qualities..
  Social developments in a civilization is mainly a set of inhibitations that has been passed down as a community progresses. It's merely man made rules of do's and don'ts set by a community that govern each and every one of our social interactions and movements. Nothing more.
  
  
• From: Nammaooruvalen (@ 202.184.134.10) on: Tue Jul 15 04:18:44 EDT 1997
  
  BTW, Ohm Namaha is from the movie "Idhayathei Thirudathey" and not "Nenjathei Killathey. On a different note, I think it is disgusting to use religios mantras for a love song. Don't you agree? OR should this be another topic... think of the possibilities!
  
  
• From: cp (@ 208.206.24.27) on: Tue Jul 15 11:44:41 EDT 1997
  
  To Nammooruvalen:
  
  Oops.. sorry.. Idhayai thirudathey sounded like nenjathai killadhey.
  
  I think when this "Om Namaha" song was heard it did get bad comments about a religious chant being used. Well! I think that if it is a good song with no vulgarity nothing wrong in using mantras or slokas.
  
  In the movie "vedham pudhithu", the song "Kannukul nooru nilava" has mantras in and out of the song but since they relate to the picturisation of the song(a sanskrit guru teaching slokams to the disciples), it seemed to be quite alright.
  
  A movie where Kushbu and Parthiban acted there is a love song "varadhu vandha nayagan" which starts with a religious chant. The song is also a super hit.
  
  
• From: Rajaram (@ 192.122.136.148) on: Tue Jul 15 20:38:39 EDT 1997
  
  "varaathu vantha" is from THAALAATTU PAADAVAA
  
  

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