Topic started by Karthik (@ 126.96.36.199) on Tue Aug 22 07:04:35 EDT 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Maniratnam, K Balachander and Bharathiraja, all three biggie directors in tamil actually had a very fruitful association with IR. Except KB the other 2 actually started with IR. KB of course is an old hand and had a great innings with MSV.
Now Mani has worked only with 2 composers, IR and ARR. And contrary to media speculation he might not work with newcomer Dina, as he's rumored to work only for Mani's home production directed by his assistant azhagam perumal. So Mani goes on.
KB, has for now stopped movies and more into Tele serials. But he shifted to Maragadhamani (Keeravani in telugu and MM Kreem in hindi) with Azhagan and subsequently Jaadhi malli. Both of them had some really good music. Deva came in for one movie, Kalki and the music, for the first time in a KB movie was substandard (IMHO). Then KB went to ARR and came out with Duet, again with great music. KB stopped there!
Bharathiraja was the strange one. He opted for Ravi in Vedham Pudhithu, when even today lot of people think it was by Raja. The kannukkul nooru nilavu was a classic IR-like composition. I still am doubtful about the composer of VP, can anybody clarify once and for all?
Anyway, BR then shifted to IR for some movies, came to ARR for kizhakku cheemayile, karuthamma, anthimantharai, taj mahal. He had also tried vidyasagar for parambarai, which did have some good numbers. And of course Deva for tamizh selvan and now kadal pookkal. BTW, tamizh selvan had some good numbers by Deva.
Now the questions:
Why did these 3 directors leave Raja in the first place? What were their last movies with Raja? Mani's was Thalapathy, but the other 2??
All three worked with ARR, Mani (6 movies), KB (1) and BR (3). MR still does. KB is out of movies. So why is BR so unsure with his composers?
Would Mani and BR be back with IR to create magic again? (assuming that KB is into TV, fulltime)
Why did KB stop work with Maragadhamani? He was damn good after all in Azhagan and Jadhi Malli!! Similarly why did BR forget Vidyasagar who gave him more than decent music for Parambarai? (adi athi, thamara poovukkum)...does it have anything to do with all these 3 movies doing very average business?
- Old responses
- From: I_too_a_HCIRF (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Mon Aug 28 13:31:47 EDT 2000
Fashion in TFMPAGE:
Give a comment on IR then in brackets say I am a HCIRF.
- From: Subbu (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Tue Aug 29 10:23:42 EDT 2000
After seeing 'AlaipAyuthae', I could not stop wondering what ManiRatnam gained out of ARR's music except for the songs. I mean, the BGM did not contribute a bit to the scenes - even very important ones like death of Shalini's father; first sight of hero searching for heroine etc. Especially I could not stand the BGM during the marriage - some 'Vande mataram' style howling of 'Mangalyam thanthuna'. Though it seems a fresh idea, the final product/execution did not help the mood of the scene.
IMHO, ARR still remains a brilliant Album producer. He is yet to contribute to a movie through BGM. Alaipaayuthae was a hit because of MR - his selection of a different story / good artists / narration. If ARR's association has helped him, I wonder what happened with 'Uyirae' which was also a good Album but movie was a flop.
As Movie music is the most dominant business of the Music industry in India, still ARR too has to stick with that. Now he has got the name, he can afford to start producing Music Albums and do away with Movie scoring in which he is definitely not comfortable with.
If ARR had scored music for 'Naayagan' I am sure we would have heard bass drum sounds for 2 hours as the BGM. We would have also missed 'Thenpaandi cheemaiyilae...' .
- From: NANBAN (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Thu Aug 31 11:05:49 EDT 2000
SOME PEOPLE SAYS "IR IS ARROGANCT"
WHEN MICHAEL SHUMACHER SUDDENLY TURNS RIGHT WHEN SOME ONE OVERTAKING HIM MEANS HIS SKILL NOT ARROGANCE.
WHEN ALI SAID " I AM THE GREATEST" ITS NOT ARROGANCE OR PROUS BUT THE FACT.
WHEN MCENROE SHOWS HIS ANGERS IN THE TENNIS COURT ITS NOT ARROGANCE BUT HIS STRONG DESIRE AND WILL TO WIN NOT TO LOSE.
WHEN MALCOM MARSHALL SAID TO AN ENGLISH BATSMAN "WILL YOU QUIT OR SHALL I COME ON ACROSS THE WICKET AND KILL YOU?" IT MEANS HIS CONFIDENCE NOT ARROGANCE.
GREAT PEOPLE BORN WITH WILL AND POWER OR IN YOUR WORDS WITH "ARROGANCE".
FINALLY,YOU NEED SOME MORE STUFF IN YOUR HEAD TO DIFFERENCITE THESE WITH ARROGANCE.
- From: NANBAN (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Thu Aug 31 11:08:36 EDT 2000
THERE IS LOT OF TYPING ERRORS.FORGIVE ME!
(I AM NOT GREAT IN TYPING!)
- From: kk (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Thu Aug 31 12:04:18 EDT 2000
you type in caps with the same will and power??!
- From: MS (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Thu Aug 31 13:16:58 EDT 2000
With no offense meant to you, I must remind you that from the stand point of netiquettes, typing in caps is arrogance.
- From: Karthik S (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Sat Sep 2 03:06:51 EDT 2000
Considering the latest news that BR and IR are back for BR's next movie (also rumored that VR will also join them)...why has BR chosen ARR for his son's 3rd movie (after Tajmahal and in production kadal pookal) alli arjuna directed by Saran?
Spreading the risks??
- From: Normal Man (@ )
on: Mon May 14 15:52:28 EDT 2001
Read the last para of this movie review. I personally feel Vikatan says IR touch BR used to have is missing.
- From: bb (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Mon May 14 17:03:47 EDT 2001
normal man, it says pinnaNi, not pinnaNi isai:)
- From: Normal Man (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Mon May 14 17:07:05 EDT 2001
I know that bb. But the intended message was to mention "pinnani isai" in a diplomatic way.
- From: bb (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Mon May 14 17:44:01 EDT 2001
haha, that is just a bit more extrapolation, IMO:)
- From: S T S (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Mon May 14 23:22:02 EDT 2001
So 'pinnani' in your opinion is background? Not background music?? So how do you translate 'nalla paampu' in Tamil. Good snake? :-)
- From: Sridhar (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Wed May 16 14:25:10 EDT 2001
I agree with you completely. IR is the best in BG scoring and ARR is the best in song composition.
- From: polappu (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Wed May 16 15:24:16 EDT 2001
what else could be 'pinnani'?
- From: bharath (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Wed May 16 15:56:55 EDT 2001
nice topic makes up for a very interesting analysis. I had collected information from various high quality mag sources like "ananda vikatan" and my friends who r associated with movie buisiness for a long time
I posted this in another thread thought it might be relevant here .. i had posted this as a reason why IR who was also my favorite MD lost the market to ARR in the 1990's
I have elucidated the relationships variance of IR with the top 3 directors as evidence and explained it.. i hope it makes sense here. and I knwo there will be a lot of disagreers and lot of people crying hoax... but IMHO these r carefully collected information and once again I am nota IR hater nor ami too obsessed with ARR to start bashing IR so here goes...
why IR's good songs dont get noticed??
well! I think he deserves it. no matter how good the music is, market salability depends on how successful/ good the movie is so IR should not have fought with good directors like bharathiraja, manirathnam, KB etc... if u notice IR's best and greatest mostly came from top directors . all the top directors now have ARR as their MD so IR is now reduced to 1 dimension!
this is what i call " wag the dog" scenario
why IR fought with
Balachander: KB was not to keen on giving up MSV when IR was new and hot, and was skeptical of IR, much the same as kamal and most of the public is to ARR now. When MSV faded away slowly KB roped in IR here and there. But given the ego of KB who is much senior to IR. The expected ego clashes arose. It is alleged that, after a few initial hits with KB, KB was made to stand in queue with other pedestrian directors( a common habbit of IR, it is alleged) so the love -hate reletionship continued with IR working in sindhu bhairavi and not in vaname ellai or jaadhi malli .
As to how far this famous stand-in-the-queue critisism of IR is true I dunno. Anyway kavithalaya used other MD's like Deva more often for its home production (eg. annamalai)
As soon as KB and Kavithalaya co-discovered ARR . he used ARR for Duet, but his last movie(so far) kalki used another MD.
I wud think KB changed MD's because of his own penchant for different movie making style than any fighst between him and IR. although KB wud have replaced IR , fight or no fight, there is no denying that they did not see eye to eye.
plus KB is a far more senior person than IR and has given hits without IR and also he has given hits without music being a prominent factor (e.g kalyana agathigal and mundru mudichu) He himself has said in a TV interview that he prefers low key songs *sometimes* to give prominence to the movie subject.
The main reason for the fight is touted as mani's non-inclusion of the song "putham puthu poo poothatho" in "thalapathi". After which again there was this all-time-favorite allegation that this lead to mani being (as usual) queued in front of IR's house along with other boot lickers. Mani made a fine gesture by collecting IR's filmfare award for "thalapathi" (which IR refused to come) but it did not work out. I saw the awards ceremony and "ananda vikatan" mentioned that due to the ongoing feud between GV and IR and also because of this "thalapathi" incident they had to split ways then. Although now since mani is now having his own production house , he has employed KR for "dum dum dum"
which leads us to believe that there r only 2 reasons for this inexplicable patch up
1) GV and IR feud was independent of mani
2) KR is offering his market in professional manner independent of his fathers relationships
Anyway ! whatever happened! Mani's association with IR was forcibly terminated after he signed up for Kavithalaya's "Roja". where IR simply cud not figure in the scheme of things bcoz of KB. which lead to the discovery of ARR and hence a new chapter in TFM. ( i guess it was p.c.sriram who recommended ARR bcoz he had worked in some advt. with him)
Bharathiraja: By far the unbeatable combo in TFM has been IR-Bharathiraja-vairamuthu. Now vairamuthu as he is doing now, with ARR thought he was the most important among the 3 (again "wag the dog" scenario) and got into a tiff with IR. Bharathiraja also had some tiffs with IR. Bharathiraja used some vague MD for rajini's kodiparakuthu (where a rajini-IR-Bharathiraja combo wud have been brilliant) to start the split and soon he made up with IR and did "nadodi thendral" without vairamuthu . which flopped and vairamuthu, said it was bcoz of the bad luck associated with his own absence that caused the movie to flop. After which bharathiraja went into a shell and resurfaced with "kezhakku semaiyila" when ARR was hot. ( again Bharathiraja and IR had their own wgo clashes when IR cudnt afford it)
so no one knows if it was IR's fault or Bhrathiraja's but vairamuthu seemed to have played some hand here.
So there is the flashbak of the top 3 directors of 1985- 1995 decade . IR lacked good strategy and +ve relationship with Movie Dir. and he was'nt modern enough to be buisiness minded. and so After the super hit of "thalapathi" IR lost all good directors and also was inderectly responsible for ARR's draft into TFM.
After 1991 his biggest hits I can think of are "kaathalukku mariayadai( The movie did well)
devadai and nassers-first-movie( Both flopped). he did some rajini and kamal movies where 1 or 2 songs did well! but nothing that really stunned the tamils to death.
thats my analysis of the downfall of the IR empire
He's good even now. But if anyone kids he has a market as good as ARR they are just too loyal to IR thats all. Its the money that matters always in showbiz, its only to us audience the pureness and heartfelt dedication to work that comes first, and IR , to put it simply "cant show the money" not that quality wise IR is still superior, he distinctly lacks good movie dir. to get the best out of him.
I sincerely believed IR though individually can come up with brilliant master pieces 75% of his hits were with the help of good directors like, BR, KB, MR , mahendran, RV udaykumar et all..
- From: Normal Man (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Wed May 16 16:11:36 EDT 2001
I sincerely believed IR though individually can come up with brilliant master pieces 75% of his hits were with the help of good directors like, BR, KB, MR , mahendran, RV udaykumar et all.
Atleast for post MSV KB, MR, RVU, Bharath I think its the other way around ;-)
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