CLAIMING ILAYARAJA - AS THE ALL TIME BEST MUSICIAN

CLAIMING ILAYARAJA - AS THE ALL TIME BEST MUSICIAN CLAIMING ILAYARAJA - AS THE ALL TIME BEST MUSICIAN

Topic started by SATHIYAVAGEESWARAN (@ client-151-200-126-20.bellatlantic.net) on Sat Jan 3 00:26:02 EST 1998.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

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Old responses
From: Indian (@ proxy.qatar.net.qa) on: Fri May 15 15:31:28 EDT 1998

S. Suresh,
Can you please tell me from which piece ARR stole 'Telephone mani pol'. It is easy to say ' Iread or I heard' but only the MD knows the pain behind composing. It is always better to be precise in your statement. Till now I believe that it is an original piece composed by ARR.
From: vijay (@ 129.252.29.219) on: Fri May 15 18:43:12 EDT 1998

suresh,
good post. i agree with what u said.
From: S.Suresh (@ dwarpal.wipsys.soft.net) on: Sun May 17 23:57:55 EDT 1998

Hi Indian,

Check out one of the threads. I have forgotten which one it is. In this it states that the rythm section (not the tune) of Telephone Manipol is from an album of Ace of Base. I havent listened to this album so I cannot vouch for it but this was posted by someone who is regular on TFM DF. Maybe someone will post the name of the album again.

I appreciate that the composer does put in a lot of effort. What I want to be appreciated is the effort that the original composer had put to come up with the tune or the rythm.
From: Indian (@ proxy.qatar.net.qa) on: Mon May 18 15:44:24 EDT 1998

Suresh,
Again I request to be precise on info. Which thread I should look for. May be you are right that the beat is the same. It may just be a coincidence.
From: pinchi srinivasan (@ 1cust42.tnt9.nyc1.da.uu.net) on: Tue May 19 00:00:43 EDT 1998

Dear mr. Indhiyan,
It is not a coincidence , I have the album "SIGN" by Ace of Base (A talented European group) the song "All that she wants" has the original rhythm of "Telephone manippol" and once again, it's just the rhythm (Beats) , and ARR is very clever to use only the rhythm and not the whole tune like many other New MD's. The discussion about is in in the thread about " BGM"
From: S.Suresh (@ dwarpal.wipsys.soft.net) on: Tue May 19 00:45:54 EDT 1998

Thanks Srini for providing the info.
From: easwaran hariharan (@ ww-tc01.proxy.aol.com) on: Tue May 19 23:44:15 EDT 1998

srinivasan,
Yes ace of base is a european (swedish pop group).
I have that album. Though beats sounds similiar
in telephone manipol, I will not accept it as
copying. I think there are many western pop songs, with similiar beats and they can not be called
as exact copy.
e.hari
From: pinchi srinivasan (@ 2cust23.tnt9.nyc1.da.uu.net) on: Thu May 21 01:01:49 EDT 1998

Dear Mr.Haris,
You are saying every time that "It is not exact copy" , I never mentioned that it is "EXACT COPY"

I don't care if similar beats were in other POP songs,but the truth is the rhythm is inspired from "Ace of Base" ( If Inspiration is a better word ) our discussion about this is not going to make ARR unpopular in the Indian music market , nor will he loose his talents to give both original and recycled stuff in future . I am not in a mission to disprove his talents, but I personally wish he will give more melodies not just the "columbus Columbus " kind of stuff,
sorry for the digression as usual
From: Indian (@ proxy.qatar.net.qa) on: Thu May 21 05:42:07 EDT 1998

Dear pinchi,
Thank you for giving correct info on ARR's "Telephone mani pol". I appreciate your detailed explanation on the beat. I will try to get that album.
From: prem (@ 202.54.6.20) on: Tue May 26 08:37:37 EDT 1998

You Guys have so much of time to cat on this, and you know what, i have in all my one and half year of surfing, could not find time to chat like this, thanks for all the information and of course entertainment.
From: Francis (@ 192.246.17.241) on: Fri May 29 19:40:40 EDT 1998

ilayaraja still wana do music like old days, too bad iam not interested in it.
beside why does he have to sing a love song. i have his voice for a love song.
doesn't anyone from his family tell him that he is too old for it

one is never too old for love, kiddo ;-)
From: Gopinath Rajee (@ cnnib102-34.splitrock.net) on: Sat May 30 01:05:11 EDT 1998

From: Gopinath Rajee (@ cnnib102-34.splitrock.net) on: Sat May 30 01:02:30 EDT 1998

Hi,

I'am n newbie to this site. I thouroughly enjoyed this discussion.

I would like to point out one important topic which is missing when MD's talents r 2 b comapred.

I'am referring 2 the BACKGROUND score, a comparative debate has not been done in any of the threads. (have u heard of the ANJALI background score, the background score for the manirathnam-Nagarjun movie - the same is
in Nothing but wind).

Xcept for Ravi 's thread I havent read any others.

And undoubtedly, with respect 2 the background score there cannot b an another
IR ( Kadhlikku Mariyadhai as ravi says is 2 good).

Thanks,
gopi
From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Sat May 30 01:21:10 EDT 1998

Gopinath: Please choose the thread most relevant to your post and just post it once there. Please do not do multiple postings, since the responses wouldn't be all in one place.
From: pathan (@ gate.themoneystore.com) on: Thu Jun 4 14:07:20 EDT 1998

Hai Francis,

You say that, illayaraaja still makes the old music. I think you have heard some old film cassette. please try his new releases and compare it with his old film music.
From: Nithin (@ nc36.pr.mcs.net) on: Sat Jun 6 19:35:23 EDT 1998

(PLEASE NOTE, DUPLICATE POSTING)

Most importantly, I feel it is time IR ventured out on creating songs or music more introspective in nature, you know, slower, deliberate concerto style and fewer of the catchy quick paced melody numbers. I think Vidyasagar is someone who is trying to do something of that nature, but is not quite effective. It is really noticeable in the interludes of Vidyasagar.

Symphonies are by nature somewhat introspective and it will be a revelation to see, if IR has really got into that mood, when the Symphony is within our reach soon.

Such introspective music will be practicable if we have the musicals/opera type theater performances. Something like the CATS, Phantom of the Opera, Jesus Christ Superstar or Marriage of the Figaro. I think a market for such kind of creativity have yet to emerge in India. Most of western classical music is devoted to romance and introspection.

However, if such themes arise, IR can really have a field time producing those one hour long albums which are slow in nature and have the basis for producing a theme that develop gradually. Aah, yes I remember the best example is the Miss World Contest for which IR composed music. However, that had short pieces with more emphasis given on dance tempo.

Just what I feel is what would be a change of pace for Illaiyaraja. What do you folks think?
From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu) on: Sat Jun 6 23:36:59 EDT 1998

Nithin: Take a look at my post in the Creativity of IR thread.
See how difficult it is for me to reply to your multiple post. If I had just replied in one thread then people would have missed this crucial warning in the other threads. If they are not going to miss the warning since they read all the threads, then they would read your opinions even if you post in one thread.
From: Veera Akkoor (@ 1cust125.tnt2.det1.da.uu.net) on: Sun Jun 7 02:23:59 EDT 1998

Still There is no music director who can do a background score like IR. The movies are "Sigappu Rojakkal",Nooravadhu naal", "Tik-Tik-Tik".

The BG score in Mouna raagam was a masterpiece.
From: Neels (@ ppp29-238.lvsb.vsnl.net.in) on: Fri Jun 12 12:40:23 EDT 1998

Yes, i agree with that.
Recently I watched CHOTA CHETAN, (the Hindi version of My Dear Kutti Chaathan) which was released way back in '85 and has now been 'rejuvenated' with some extra star-cast (a la StarWars)and some lousy parallel story... (the movie in its original form was much better in content).

Well, it had music by IR and in the present one, the producers have roped in Annu Malik (!!!) to replace the old numbers. Needless to say, the numbers stink! But what was heartening was the fact that they have retained the BG score by IR and what a fabulous score it is! The effort shows.. and HOW!

The new breed of MDs do not bother much about BG scores, especially in the Hindi film industry.

Neels
From: Veera Akkoor (@ 1cust159.tnt2.det2.da.uu.net) on: Fri Jun 12 19:36:03 EDT 1998

I forgot to mention how much care IR takes to compose BG for a particular movie. Especially Crime Thriller he is a genius. Recently KAthalukku mariyadhai IR has scored some great BG.

He is the best in the industry. Any takes for that. Iam ready to prove by movies.
From: Nithin (@ nc.pr.mcs.net) on: Sat Jun 13 00:51:37 EDT 1998

Neels

You are right about the Chota Chetan revised version in Hindi. I bought that stinking cassette thinking atleat those producers could pay to retain the original 2 songs, but no.

There are about 6 songs each one without form and structure. However, the Vani Jayaram and Sujatha song is retained in the Annu Mallik morphing technique, from a skylark the song was transformed into a hyena.

About the background score, it is one of the Raja's brilliant I can readily recall. The same score can be used here by the 3-D Max theater shows! There is a long story about how IR did about 6 or more tracks and overlapped the orchestral score one on top of the other. It was a great masterpiece. The background score and the two songs in the Malayalam and Tamil (the Jesudas song was different in Tamil) gave the fourth dimension to the movie.

I still cannot believe that movie was done with that level of allround technical brilliance in India and that too nearly 15 years back!
From: pg (@ client-116-109.bellatlantic.net) on: Sat Jun 13 09:40:03 EDT 1998

There is a instrumental piece on the original movie - available on the original LP called 'Dance of the Toys' - which I guess is BGM when kutti chAthAn displays his magic and brings toys to life. It is a superb number.
From: Vadhiraj (@ du139-20.cc.iastate.edu) on: Mon Aug 30 22:52:09 EDT 1999

There is no Music diretor in the cinema industry to match with Raaja as far as BGM is concerned.Also i havent seen a M.Director giving that much variety as Raaja in his songs .Also there r many movies which ran just because of Raaja's Music .Kudos to Raaja !!!!!!!!!
From: ravi kumar (@ 202.188.156.176) on: Sat Sep 4 05:50:52 EDT 1999

There is no one in music industry can fight IR.He is always the best.His music arrangments are always the best and different from others.
He had shown best BGM in a lot of movies.
Example:
salangai oli
mahanathi
nayagan
dalapathy
sinthu bairavi
sippikkul muthu
mundram pirai
mudupani
marupadiyum
thoongathe thambi thongathe
raja parvai
guna
pathinaru vayathinile
mogamul
veedu
mouna ragam
anjali
ithayathai thirudathe
devar magan
keladi kanmani
From: karthik (@ charon.amdahl.com) on: Thu Sep 9 20:30:40 EDT 1999

The opening score of the song "Enna Vilai Azhage" in the movie "Kadhalar Dhinam" is a direct lift from the BGM of Titanic. I am sure this is not the only instance where ARR flicked a piece of music. Agree, even IR lifted western compositions occasionally, but those incidents occurred far between. In case of ARR they happen a bit frequently.

I feel that IR is a genius and ARR is good. ARR could do without lifted pieces.

Perhaps, the fact they compose too much music forces our MDs to resort to such things.
From: e (@ ) on: Wed Nov 17 07:09:39 EST 1999

revive:-)
ARR composing `too much music'? Karthik, are you kidding? (BTW, the tune of `enna vilai' is a direct lift of `thangapadhakkathin mele', some MGR song!)
From: Sukhilatthil (@ bkj-cache81.jaring.my) on: Tue Nov 23 04:50:03 EST 1999

direct or indirect, a lift is a lift. but ARR is not shoplifting becos' it's an offence. ARR is a good modifier-cum-technician who seems 2B super but IR lacks the Bigbulls attention. Coming back 2U. Baai..
From: Sukhilatthil (@ bkj-cache81.jaring.my) on: Tue Nov 23 04:51:02 EST 1999

direct or indirect, a lift is a lift. but ARR is not shoplifting becos' it's an offence. ARR is a good modifier-cum-technician who seems 2B super but IR lacks the Bigbulls attention. Coming back 2U. Baai..

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