Topic started by Ramani (@ gatekeeper.wipsys.soft.net) on Mon Sep 28 08:43:56 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
This posting covers two topics ;-)
In y'day's function at Chennai for Kalaignar,
IR sung(read) a self composed song 'thanE thanE
thanthaanE.. thannaith thamizukku thanthaanE''
Before reading some verses, he passed on some sharp
remarks indirectly against VM ..
Why this sudden anti-VM outbust..? and that too in a
public function..? (his brother GAmaran has been doing
this through magazines for quite some time)
VM was seen sitting in some 3rd row..with a deserted look
(usually he looks cheerful in Kalaignar functions)
God knows why such a great combo is still at loggerheads..
Hopefully B.raja or KB bring them together again.
9 out of 10 dances in that program were of ARR's..
(compered by GA and Oorvasi).. It must have been
shocking for IR to see that ARR's songs only are used
for all dances nowadays in any stage. Could be the reason
why Rajini chose ARR for Padaiyappa.
- From: Totally_Puzzled (@ webgate0.mot.com)
on: Mon Sep 28 09:31:22 EDT 1998
What comments did IR (indirectly) pass against VM - could you please tell us ?
It must have been
shocking for IR to see that ARR's songs only are used for all dances nowadays in any stage.
I don't think so... Do you think IR does not know the situation in TFM today ? Or do you think if IR will be perturbed by such things at this stage of his career ?
- From: f_IR_f (@ horus.erlm.siemens.de)
on: Mon Sep 28 09:45:31 EDT 1998
Version given by my friend:
"let me explain to you what I saw yesterday. Suddenly Illayaraja appeared at the stage. He was so humble and silent when he came to the stage. The commentators ( SUN-TV guys, James Vasanthan, Varatharajan, Uma( not pepsi Uma ) were all praising about him. It seems Ilaiyaraja was sitting in one corner of the crowd, as if he does
not know anything. Then he took the mike... and started singing a song, a newly composed one.
The lines go like..
"ThAnnai thAnE tamizhukku thanthAnE......."
Though the tune was not all that good, the way he sang it was enough to prove that he was a maestro.. Then he sang one more song.. that was not very good. But it was far better than MSV's song. Finally, after singing, Ilaiys said, I cannot offer anything else other than this to him(MK) "
Can somebody throw some veLichcham?
- From: haris (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Mon Sep 28 10:27:00 EDT 1998
i saw the whole festival live and let me try explaining you what IR said,
Ilayaraja,"ippo irukkara kavignargal edhai edhayO kavidhai-nnu chollittu thiriyaranga, udhAranathukku, kuppan aathankaraikku pOnan... nAnum pinnAdi pOnEn... ippadi yEdhAvadhu chollittu, nAn thAn periyA kavignan, adhu mattum illAma, idhu varaikkum vandha kavignargallayE, nAn thAn chirandhavan... en pAttu thAn ulladhilEyE nalla pAttu.. -nu chollikkarAnga..."
though i dont' remember the exact wording , this is the gist of what IR said yesterday.
- From: dhan (@ dajal.legato.com)
on: Mon Sep 28 13:24:39 EDT 1998
Going by your version, I am deeply dissappointed by IR's attitude. It looks to me a veiled attack by IR on VM, given the cirumstance of the "kaviyarasu" pattam fiasco. In many of the recent interviews IR has been seen as very humble person which raised questions about the credibility of the media built-up against him. But the latest words from IR(that too when the entire world watches him LIVE) does expose his attitude. For a man who is a living legend, THIS seems to be totally unwarranted.
- From: Mukund (@ sdwwwgw01.sd.nmp.nokia.com)
on: Mon Sep 28 13:32:43 EDT 1998
It looks silly for somebody in his position and stature. Shows he is human too. Of course, as he had once earlier told in the SPB's 30000 songs function, "He had done all wrong things in life, every human being does, but music brought out the good in him."
I still believe he may have a reason to be angry with him, but he should have been careful not to have draggged himself down. (especially now with VM being successful the public perception would support VM.)
- From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Mon Sep 28 13:50:55 EDT 1998
i think IR is in a good position to call a spade a spade. if these were his views on VM,given his seniority, i am not surprised that he chose to air it out. VM is not known for his modesty either.
- From: Rajesh (@ pdxss902.pdx.intel.com)
on: Mon Sep 28 13:56:45 EDT 1998
So you think except VM no one else is a kavignar.
I think IR in general referred to most of the kavignars today. The fact that most of you think
it is just against VM is like insulting all others
who have been writing songs. He has complained a lot before this against the declining trend in
writing good songs. This is one more outburst and
that too to bring out the greatness of Kalaignar by saying others are not like him.
- From: Udhaya (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Mon Sep 28 14:45:19 EDT 1998
Maybe the occasion didn't call for it, but IR is a man of the music industry and it's his prerogative to mourn the sad turn of events in his field. VM is a talented jerk, plain and simple. He deserves every knock he gets publicly.
But IR hasn't quite earned the right to "criticize lyrics" when he has okayed songs like:
-"Loveunna love-u manennai stove-u"
-"Enna paattu paada. . .nikkaadhae oadu idhu sarkaaru roadu"
-"Mayilae Mayilae machchaan illaiya ippo veetula. . .anda veettu neyyae, en annan pondaatti kayyae"
MSV, who's not even a native speaker of Thamizh, had said in an interview, "Enna paattu varudhu ippallaam, mozhikkae serangu vandha maathiri". Now, MSV or any of the pre-70s era music directors can talk about the decline of lyrics because they have the right.
- From: N.C. Ramakrishna (@ spider-we042.proxy.aol.com)
on: Mon Sep 28 18:57:59 EDT 1998
I dont think there is anything wrong in IR's comment. Even we can judge the type of songs we are getting now when compared to old songs. There were lot of pattimanrams conducted on this topic.
Considering the service rendered by IR to TFM he is the right person to pass the judgement. I think he never pointed out vairamuthu. Also it may be or may not be . Its like if you are doing wrong if it was refered to somebody you check that the pointer was towards you. If VM writes all good lyrics why should he bother about IR comments or even VM's fans.
- From: Mukund (@ sdwwwgw01.sd.nmp.nokia.com)
on: Mon Sep 28 20:36:37 EDT 1998
Lot of people do feel this - that the decline in quality of lyrics took place in IR's period.
Of course compared to MSV era there was a decline quality. But still songs were atleast connected to the situation. But nowadays there is hardly any connection to situations.
I am reminded of "O ranga sri ranga" - such a crap. But I take it in lighter vein and am able to accept it. And it came from IR's music. I think he should not condemn others just because he feels more serious with lyrics these days. (ie. even if you consider that this was not against VM)
But you are right as to the check the pointer towards himself when someone is wrong.
- From: nesAN (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Mon Sep 28 21:51:32 EDT 1998
It maybe due to lack of poets in the industry.
During MSV's period, Kannadasan was there. During IR period, there was no one to replace Kannadasan. If he avoids all the poets, then there would be no movies relesed until now. As Mukund said, IR cares about Lyrics. But songs like "O Ragan SRi Ranga" dont have any situation. It was just for fun. Even now compare the lyrics in IRs songs and other's songs, u can see the difference.
- From: Srikanth (@ slip-32-101-16-65.il.us.ibm.net)
on: Mon Sep 28 22:03:11 EDT 1998
Raja was waiting for a change to attack VM, He needs it. Also Raja should have spoken about the std of music. I am afraid to see the status of tfm in year 2000. I happen to hear the Singapore radio which plays real crap from deva often, I wish someone does something to lift (I ment raise,lift has a better meaning to Sirpi and the gang) the TFM's std.
Udhaya: VM, A Talented Jerk! best way to Describe diamond. (I have the same of word for one more person!, whom I dont want to metion it here)
- From: aruLarasan (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Mon Sep 28 23:31:04 EDT 1998
Srikanth, I know who :-)))))
aNda vIttu neyya, than poNdAtti kaiya - is a classic pazhamozhi. I don't
know how it got changed to en aNNan poNdAtti kaiya. Anyways,that would be
a good sense of timing if used well. Also enna pAttu pAda was not at all
c***. In fact. I consider it to be a cute song. A good change from ornamented
One can always change (maybe it's an improvement). Just because one was bad
in the past doesn't prevent him from pointing out bad people now. kali innum
avvaLavu muthtthi pOgala. :-))))
PS: Read nA. kAmarAsan's interview in kumudam in the recent past?
- From: N.C. Ramakrishna (@ spider-tk054.proxy.aol.com)
on: Mon Sep 28 23:47:37 EDT 1998
I agree with Mukund. There is no doubt that IR did gave music to many crap songs. But I think everybody will agree the number was much much less when compared to the percentage of songs coming up now a days. Some songs though tunes are good are so crap that we dont feel to sing them.
I started a thread in DF do discuss which is imortant to a song whether tune or lyric. If lyric is so bad that we cant hum it what is use of a great tune? May be IR is feeling the same?
But many may question why now? You know if you have a feeling you express that. If you come to a new field and start complaining about everything No body cares you. I can give you an example. You join the office and the day one you tell your boss that the environment is not good unless you change this I cant work. Then I think you know the situation. It will be nothing that you will be fired. Once you prove yourselves that one starts respecting you, what ever you say will be perfect. I think IR is in that stage now and he used that situation.
The quality not only in songs, dialogues, story almost in everything has come down in Films. Only the technical values have increased. The deteriarating rate is alarmingly increasing. As srikanth told we cant imagine the TFM situation after Y2K. I think like the Y2K is solved in software, something has to be done on Y2K basis to TFM. May be IR initiated the step.
You know the BW films are much better than the films what we see now. The enjoyment we get seeing that movies and the feeling that we have watched a movie was definfitely for B/W movies and initial color movies than the movies coming up now.
ARR doesnt remember his own tunes. When asked in Rediff that why the tunes are repititive he tells surprisingly that he didnt realise that. From that it is clear that if you cut and paste you dont remember anything. SPB sings many songs without seeing to lyrics. IR discusses how the tune was made for song 20 yrs back. What IR has done has to be questioned by somebody in the era before him.
The same VM has delivered excellent songs. But why he is not able to deliver his due now? Why his quality has come down? If somebody criticises you, you should justify yourself in giving best output. If not accept it. There are lot other writers who can perform well . Why they are not doing so? What is the reason? Can anybody analyse why this is happening?
I think this has become too much that all for now
- From: N.C. Ramakrishna (@ spider-tk082.proxy.aol.com)
on: Tue Sep 29 01:02:40 EDT 1998
Sorry guys, lot of typo errors. I think you all still can understand what I have posted
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