Topic started by Kitcha (@ dhcp232-184.eel.ufl.edu) on Thu Oct 9 19:57:23 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.
- From: Kitcha (@ dhcp232-184.eel.ufl.edu)
on: Thu Oct 9 20:05:51 EDT 1997
Now,talk of strange topics....
But this is a very serious query...
Have you ever noticed how MD's use natural sounds in their songs.....I was listening to "Yetho Mogam"(what else:-)} ..and I noticed how beatifully IR had mixed the sound of running water in the intro to the song....It makes the song more
Then there is the 'paruvamme ' song from"N.Killathe"...where you have the sound of jogging feet....Then there is "pon maalai pozhuthu" where you hear all those birds chirping and singing...
I know ARR also does a lot of this stuff...Anybody shed more light on that?
What about MD's like MSV....? I know one song,though....."parakkum pandhu parakkum",where you hear that rhythmic 'tok,tok,tok..'..
- From: Aravind (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Oct 10 02:33:44 EDT 1997
I have been having this doubt for a long time. I may sound very uninformed. But vekkap pattaal puthiya vishayaththai, kEttu therinthukoLLa mudiyAthu.
My doubt is : Both in songs and re-recording we have many natural sounds like sound of waves, wind, birds, trickling water, closing of car doors etc. How are these sounds reproduced? Are they played on instruments or are they recorded and reproduced?
I won't be surprised if someone says that a keyboard can produce all of those sounds. I have seen the 'whoosh' sound being given by a keyboard for 'saanthu pottu' (thEvar magan).
But even in olden days, before the advent of KB, these sounds existed in the songs and BGM. How were these done?
- From: pg (@ igw2.merck.com)
on: Fri Oct 10 09:30:08 EDT 1997
You will be very surprised. Keyboards are used but the ways of producing these sounds vary. You should see 'Movie Magic' on Discovery channel to learn more about this. This programme is a must for movie lovers. Now that sound is becoming very important in movies (Dolby Digital, DTS etc) sound effects have become extremely important.
In TFM I saw a programme on DD on these type of effects. I forget the name of this guy (he acted as Seetha's father in Unnal mudiyum thambi). He used to work in IR's troupe (probably still does) and he demonstrted how they created a lot of these special effects in re-recording. Every day objects become musical instruments in his hands. Can anybody imagine how they create the 'ooh' ghostly sound in horror movies ? Using a hand-saw !
BTW the jogging sound in nenjathai kiLLathE was created by clapping on the thighs.
- From: Kanchana (@ ww-tp05.proxy.aol.com)
on: Fri Oct 10 14:26:34 EDT 1997
To add to what PG said, those of you in the U.S. close to Universal Studios in Florida can actually get to see how they record the different sound "nucleii", enhance each and blend them during re-recording. They used relatively simple objects like pebbles of different sizes, shoes, human voices, various types of paper etc. etc. to come up with some of the most sophisticated sound effects. The soundstage actually looks like a junkyard.
One of my ad agencies once showed me how they enhance sound effects using different pieces of equipment for commercials--it is fascinating what you can do with today's technology!!!
PG, thx for talking about the jogging sounds in paruvamae song; I've always wondered about that SFX.
- From: cp (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Fri Oct 10 15:16:04 EDT 1997
Rajadhi raja un thandhirangal in Mannan. Throughout the song a male playback singer sings "thukthukdhoothuk".. throught the song. First it sounded like some instrument and when I listened carefully I could identify a human voice. Very brilliantly done.
- From: pkumar (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Sat Oct 11 02:49:37 EDT 1997
I used to watch orchestra in our place very closely, they bring many objects to produce these special effects. like, whistle type of objects for birds. Sometimes they use Comb, by folding hands in different ways etc. Mainly for IR songs.
I watch one programme about shooting in hollywood, they fixed the mic at the tip of a drilling machine, and they recorded that noice while drilling on a drum. That sound (noise) was used when the hero's (Arnold) plane got
- From: Kannan (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sun Oct 12 19:40:36 EDT 1997
I was watching movie magic in the Discovery channel oneday. They showed how they created strange noises for the monsters in that movie. It's a very popular movie, but i don't remember the name of the movie now. They had lot of vegetables like cabbage, carrot etc. They created and recorded strange noises by crushing those vegetables and also they showed the clip from the movie in which they've used that music.
Very interesting. isn't it?
- From: Aravind (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Sun Oct 12 23:46:21 EDT 1997
The guy whom you mentioned must be mIsai Murugesh. He is well known for his miming skills.
Thanks to everybody on giving inouts on this. It was very interesting. ungkaL paNi thodarattum.
What is this? I am still thinking that this sound was from an instrument. Unfortunately, I do not have the song on audio media. Will be my first job to acquire one, atleast temporarily, and enjoy your observation.
- From: Shashi (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Mon Oct 13 21:56:59 EDT 1997
I was vacationing in Madras the whole of September and now I am back in US. I did write once from my home PC in Madras about Raman Abdullah (my dad has a vsnl account).
Regarding exotic sounds, I agree that in olden days (days before synth. and samplers) sound effects had to be manually done. Nowadays, it depends on whether you need a sound effect for rerecording or for a song. For re-recording, ie., funny sounds/eerie sounds/vague robotic/new age sounds the sound engineers do go in search of new sounds and record them and use them. This is what people before me described in the Discovery channel/TLC etc., programs.
If a sound needs to be used repetitively in a song sequence usually there is a device called a sampler which is put to use. This device can sample any sound and convert it scientifically to its digital characteristics. The quality of the sampler varies depending on the rate of sampling. Example a 32 bit sampler is much more sophisticated than a 8 bit sampler. Once this is done the sampler is then digitially hooked up to the synthesizer which then can either create periodic repetitions of the sampled sound as per the rythmic intricacies of the song to be composed or can actually convert the sampled sound to the keyboard scale. What do I mean by "scaling to the keyboard/synthesizer"? For example lets say you sample a sound of "opening a coke can". Now you can tell the synthesizer to use this sampled sound as the note C or in indian terms Sa. Now it automatically tempers the above sound to C#,D,D#,E,F... or Sa,ri,ga,ma....etc. You now have a whole new instrument which sounds like the opening of the coke can in different tones. This can be used for your song as needed (rythmically or melodically).
An example of this effect is the song "Raja rajadhi rajan indha raja". In the interlude of this song the tones (notes or melody) is actually a percussion instrument sampled and used as a melodic intrument. The olden day concept of this was called the "Tabla Tarang". Some of you might recall olden day song sequences where they show a person playing a series of tabla (7-9) but not a rythmic accompaniment but as the melody itself. Another example is the "Jalatharangam" where the performer actually uses "sticks or its equivalent" to strike the water filled vessals to produce a tone or note. Now he uses a series of these tones just like the keyboard does to any sampled sound described before. With a series of this sounds he is able to play a melody.
I tried to explain as much as possible. Feel free to question if you have more questions.
By the way Arvind, Rajaraman and to all the hard-core old timers in TFM, when I was in India I met my guru, i.e., Ilayaraaja!! No, I am not kidding. I personally met him. I also witnessed one of his song recording sessions. I stayed with him in "Prasad Digital Studios" at Kodambakkam for a whole day. He was recording a song for a movie called "Kizhakum Maerkum". The whole experience is hard to describe, but for me it was a spiritual experience because it was a meeting I had dreamt of all my life. Yes to have a glimpse of my "manaseega guru" and be blessed.
How did I manage to do it? Well, lets say I was fortunate or rather blessed to know people in Madras, who are themselves highly respected in the Cine industry. They are not only close to Raja but also respect and understand him well, just as Raja does them.
I will write more about it later.
Bye for now.
- From: cp (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Tue Oct 14 10:40:52 EDT 1997
Thanks for the info on the sound effect in "Rajadhi raja" . Till date, I had assumed that some human voice had been used to play that. Very good info. And, I am waiting to hear about your encounter with Ilayaraaja. You are indeed a lucky man to have met him at his Recording center. Please tell us about your experience.
- From: cp (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Tue Oct 14 10:45:37 EDT 1997
In my previous posting I had mistaken "Rajadhi rajan indha raaja" for the song I had listed before. What do you think about the sound "thukthukdhoothuk" used in "Rajadhi raaja un thandhirangal" in "Mannan"? Would it be a human voice or some kind of percussion instrument?
- From: Aravind (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Tue Oct 14 22:56:35 EDT 1997
Welcome back to TFM!! ungkaL face value kUdivittathu. inimE engkaLaip pOnRa jujoobi pasangkaLOda pEsuvIngkaLA :-)
I have seen the sampler you described at work. It was during the re-recording of a video film which we made at college (Sundar, adikka varAthE). Yes!! We from the dramatics club made a movie and a whole lot of guys who saw the movie were waiting to murder us. (naangkaL innum thalai maRaivaai irukkiROm).
Re-recording was done by a local orchestra group who had the sampler. They were practising 'kAthOram lOlAkku' (sinna mApLE). The sound of the horse's hoof which features throughout the song, was given by that sampler. It looked like a Hi-Fi keyboard with a kind off floppy drive. Something like a floppy was inserted and a menu appeared on the display on the keyboard. The player selected the required item and pressed 'start'.
That is it!! They never worried about the horse hoof after that.
- From: Bhaskar (@ dutyfree.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Wed Oct 15 11:38:00 EDT 1997
Some songs which has special musical effects . . .
Oru poogavanam pudhu manam
adhil romanjanam dinam dinam
Thulli thulli nee padamma setaiamma
Nee kanner vittal chinna manam thagathamma
The water and kodam music in this is lilting.
Yenna satham indha neram
Movie: Punnagai Mannan
Yeh Kuruvi Chittu Kuruvi
von sodinge adha kootikittu
yenga veetukkulla vandhu koodu kattu
This has very beautiful Kuruvi Music.
Movie: Mudhal Mariyadhai
Kuyil paatu vandhadhenna ilamaane
Adhai keettu selvadhenge manamthaane
This has beautiful Kuyil Isai very melodious.
Movie: Rasavin Manasila
- From: Shashi (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Wed Oct 15 12:49:23 EDT 1997
I dont think meeting my guru (IR)
has increased my "face value". I know there
are thousands of IR fans (just like me) who
would like to meet him, and I was just lucky.
That makes me no greater IR enthusiast than
you guys are. Infact the humility IR showed and
offcourse his dedication towards his job are
things one should learn and if I, claiming to take
him as my guru should boast of a chance meeting
with him, that would entirely defeat the point.
Anyway, nice talking to you.
Regarding cp's question on "Rajadhi raja un thanthirangal"
I will listen to it some time this week and try to
answer the question of human voice being sampled and
used rythmically or not.
- From: TRV (@ tvenkata.qualcomm.com)
on: Wed Oct 15 13:32:05 EDT 1997
nice to see your postings on this site.
Educating people with your knowledge, huh? My
mail server is down right now, that's why I'm
using this to communicate with you. Will email
you as soon as my server is up. It was nice
talking to you.
- From: Partha (@ )
on: Sun Aug 26 12:46:09 EDT 2001
i am new to this group , though i have been an avid listener to the comments typed in here.
i would like to know where i can hear or find the song
"paruvamae puthiya paadal padu.. "that suhasini song.
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