Topic started by Raj (@ mailserver01.sb.com) on Tue Jun 16 19:39:38 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Let's say that the following albums Ilayaraaja had produced in 97-98 were labeled as done by ARR:
India 24 Hrs
Imagine how the media and the other ARR promoters would have gone wild and potrayed him as God if he did such quality music within a span of few months.
Maybe Sony would have asked him to grow his hair to his feet.
Maybe the top 10 lists created to promote his music would be top25 list with all these songs in the list forever.
Maybe these promoters will be at their wits ends because this will be the first time they would have had so much material (both quality and quantity) to work with.
Just imagine what would happen if ARR had real talent!
- Old responses
- From: Srikanth (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Wed Jun 17 10:59:34 EDT 1998
See you are refering only to a old again, I agree that he has inovated in past , I cannot accept always the same pattern.
When I started to create a midi file for columbus... the first organ whamping was really hard to find - still I have not found all the keys in the chord ... still there is a extra note to the b major chord...( if you all it my limitation of knowledge..if so try it yourself )
The bass part placement in Kanodu kanbathellam..is very good..
Very simple but interesting for me play.
Hey tune of porale ponu thayee is new village folk tune, beat, bass etc..etc.. without any tabla..(raja emanda tabla - we use to pull - if siva mani is absent , Raja will adjust anyscore with Tabla..)
What about the Chours Harmonies - ?
(I saw your posting on China china Aasai - The tune is as simple as a N. rhyme, the flute interludes , violin and veena intreludes were very new me. - But alas the fact this N.rhyme was enough to overthrow Raja)
- From: SRikanth (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Wed Jun 17 11:09:27 EDT 1998
There were many mistakes in my earlier posting
.. working from office - oru bayam than..
not purul kutram - just spelling mistakes..
Regarding the harmonies -- you are saying it as gimmick - not at all agreed.
Why Raja used a harmony track it in KM in enai thalata varuvayo.. (it is not also set properly.)
You are starting to use words of Regular H.C.Raja fans. This a new thing AR introduced into TFM.. Placing a proper harmony for a Tamil song is very hard. Because we are still Indian classical music oriented - MonoPhonic..
in the tune...Ar changed the tunes to Polyphonic...
Also Making the chours sing properly is another task.
All credit goes to ARR.. In parka the Parkhe - gentle man - hear the chours - Male and female very interesting score..
The bass pattern is also very nice in this song.
- From: Srinath (@ socks10d.raleigh.ibm.com)
on: Wed Jun 17 11:32:46 EDT 1998
But alas the fact this N.rhyme was enough to overthrow Raja !
You are repeatedly saying that ARR's flawed scores were enough to overthrow IR. And on top of that you claim that I am using terms used by regular hard core IR fans. Don't you think that is a little unfair on your part ? In all my discussions I have never taken away any credit from ARR's success. When you use a voice harmony where it is an aberration to the tune, it is called a gimmick - not some great new invention.
"This a new thing AR introduced into TFM" ? What is new ? Voice harmony ? You seem to be contradicting yourself here. On one hand, you say that IR used it only in his earlier songs, and on the other hand you say that ARR was the first to do it. If you are saying that ARR was the first to do it for a large percentage of his songs, then my claim that ARR is using voice harmony as a gimmick, stands vindicated. I am not insulting ARR's intelligence. I am only pointing out his lack of ability in certain areas as compared to IR. ARR is still a great composer. But in no way comparable to IR. Meanwhile, what do you think of starting a thread where IR fans will speak out on what they like in ARR's music that is missing in IR's music and vice-cersa ? That could be a lot more interesting than repeatedly arguing over something that neither of us is going to compromise on :-))).
- From: SRIKANTH (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Wed Jun 17 12:26:18 EDT 1998
I have been playing keyboards from MSV period. Given the kind of resources what MSV had - he produced something really great. When Raja came he also did many new things, with the resources he had. Similary when ARR came he did bring in new things,
But as a whole the success of MSV, IR and ARR among a basic TFM fan is that they were able to provide something new from the previous.
I have enjoyed every ones score .. but I cannot accpet the fact IR is the best musician ever TFM produced. Msv was the greatest in his time - Raja was greatest during his tenure - now it is ARR's turn - I say ARR because - We are daring to compare him IR.. that itself is a credit to ARR. When Raja came in , he was compared with MSV, the music gaint at that period.
The reason I post for ARR is every Raja fan here always tend to end thier topic in ARR Samharam,.
Copying, cacaphony, mtv influence etc all these were uttted by Raja fans.. Forgetting the past.
Also You have the answer, there are areas where IR lacks and AR lacks ..
Success of Ar is : He was able to remove those x, y, and z what IR lacked in his music.
(This does not mean ARR is 100% Fit but he was able to better IR in those areas.)
There will be another person one day who will conquer what ARRs lacks,
How abourt Trying it -both of us can do - call ourself SrisRajaMan
Bye I have meeting to attend.
- From: Srinath (@ socks7d.raleigh.ibm.com)
on: Wed Jun 17 12:33:00 EDT 1998
I've started a new thread titled "Stranger in the mirror...". The idea is for fans from opposing camps to come out with what they like in their rivals idols and what they dislike in their own idols. I think you would be the ideal person to put a pillayaar suzhi for this thread ! :-)))
- From: Krishna (@ mailserver01.sb.com)
on: Wed Jun 17 15:32:55 EDT 1998
I disagree that ARR has used new techniques. If you back Raja has used them before. For example, the chorus teachniques, Raja has used them since long back. Song without any instuments, Raja has used it way back in Pagalil oru Iravu. Even "Chinna Chinna Aaasi", Raja has scored such songs much before that.. infact to me, chinna chinna vanna kyil antime is better than chinna chinna aasai. or the song in punnagai mannan If you want to talk about use of drums differently listen to poopotta dhavani in Kaaki Chattai, pattu kannam in the same movie, the song by SPB from Geethanjali (telugu) and raja rajathi rajan indha raja from agni natchathiram. The song by KJ in Roja or ottagathai in Gentleman. IR had done tons of songs like that. Name anything Raja had done it before. The song veerapandi kottaiyele form Thiruda Thiruda...listento Ottam Konda Raasave from Thirupurasundari... done before. You talked about a simple folksy village song..listen to Kariyellam shenbagpoo...done before...
The difference is Raja goes for variey. He does not stick with just western or western classical or folk or classical or hindustani. He keeps experimenting that when ARR comes and has one style based on beats and on western base, people consider it new. To me, it is frustrating to see this unabashed unfairness to Raja's contributions.
Just listen to Idhu oru Ponmalai Pozhuthu or Putham Pudhu Kaalai and tell me if you have heard the same genius of composition, orchestration and genius with ARR.
Well, I am proud that I can enjoy this genius and the web of conspiracy against Raja by the media and ARR promoters cannot get to me.
- From: vijay (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Wed Jun 17 18:49:14 EDT 1998
to srinath and srikanth,
the arguments of yours are like this.iam not going into the technical aspects but from what i have grasped so far...
srikanth goes like ARR has tried these chords or this type of chorus which IR has not...
and srinath goes like... so what? does different music means better music?
my suggestion is first of all we should define what is meant by better music.is it commercially
successful music?is it music which has touched us emotionally?if so visit the 'emotional songs' thread and u will see only IR's songs there.
also srikanth should explain why he considers ARR using those different chords as something great.is it because it is really difficult and requires some skill? or is it because it sounds more melodious?or is it because he has just tries something different?
personally my criteria has always been melody.what sounds melodious to me i accept.fortunately or Unfortunately i do not delve into these technical aspects much because of the simple fact that a song that has intricate technicalities built into it need not be good to listen.i can take some of srikanth's own examples like 'maana madurai' and say even though ARR has attempted fusion ,the song did not make an impact at all.
so the bottomline is each guy has a different criteria for judging a MD's ability.people like me care only about the end product,that is the tune of the song,because that is the reason why we buy the cassette.people like srikanth because of their background and composing experience might be able to appreciate the technical aspects of composing.
so before we argue we should set down some guidelines and points on which to argue.say something like this:
2. use of instruments
3.choice of singer
5. BGM of films
6. innovation/creativity etc.
and i agree with srinath that different does not mean better.there can be thousand more variations which IR might not have tried so far or he might not have the time to try it in his lifetime which someone else could have tried.so we should keep this in mind while arguing.
anyway your arguments are becoming more informative ,which is healthy.
- From: Raj (@ mailserver01.sb.com)
on: Wed Jun 17 19:11:20 EDT 1998
Going back to my original point, if ARR was labeled MD of the IR movies listed, then GV, Bharatiraja and KBalachnder would have worked hard to provide ARR with a national award a month.
- From: NaNbaN (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Wed Jun 17 20:18:01 EDT 1998
"ARR made good music but after some time he got a little monotonous"
-- Laxmikant Pyraelal.
If you ask me what i say
We have stop fighting , appreciate Good Music regardless of who gives it.
WhatZ in NAME?. See whatz in music?
Onlything I am sure of is, ARR is keeping
up to his standards (nowdays). I guess he is not going to disappoint us in a LONG run.
- From: nesan (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Thu Jun 18 12:32:28 EDT 1998
What a serious topic? This is what happening with
ARR. He has all the media personnel with him.
Before KM was released most people (including myself) didnt know there was such a film under production. If that was to be scored by ARR, then
fans would have come to know about these one year in advance ( ARR needs that much time to give a movie like KM, not BGM included. Then it will take
another 3 months.), there would be posters all over the places.
- From: Indian (@ )
on: Tue Nov 11 14:45:14 EST 2003
you guys suck !!
- From: rajasaranam (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Wed Nov 12 04:42:07 EST 2003
i know wat ur planning for :-)
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