Topic started by Arun (@ internet1.ford.com) on Wed Jun 25 12:54:08 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.
- Old responses
- From: vijay (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Tue Jul 14 04:33:20 EDT 1998
I also found the following line in one of your previous postings to be very disturbing..
'first can you guys understand when I say a suspended 6 th chord AR has used....'
the above line conveys a derogatory opinion on other DFM'ers.it sounds like u as though u are arrogant, whereas the fact might be that u are not.
so, since u are a senior 'campaigner' in this forum i request u to be less emotional in your comments.
keep posting.also tell us about your new music band in chicago!
- From: Srikanth (@ 145.minneapolis-07.mn.dial-access.att.net)
on: Tue Jul 14 08:40:25 EDT 1998
The reason I had a arraogant tone in my postings is in response to the earlier postings by MPR.
I am really Sorry If I had hurt anyone, that is not my intention.
Regarding classical flick , at times raja picks up notes from western classical pieces, I dont want to make this big. But he has done it. --> As we allow our musicians to take notes or raga from Thayagaraja or other historical composers ...I feel this is also similar.
- From: Ganesh (@ www.integra.co.in)
on: Tue Jul 14 09:27:00 EDT 1998
For your postings I understand that their is a specific reason behind HTNI. Can you tell me what it is?
- From: Geetha (@ gatekeeper.oracle.co.uk)
on: Tue Jul 14 09:38:08 EDT 1998
Ganesh: HTNI?!?!?! Please clarify, I'm lost.....
Srikanth: Excellent argument. I'm really enjoying reading this thread, my knowledge of music is increasing because od postings like yours.
- From: Madhan (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Tue Jul 14 10:49:09 EDT 1998
If HOW TO NAME IT ? was 50% "flicked" stuff as you claim, why is it that one MR.L.Subramaniam, give an awesome review of the album (in FRONTLINE)
and say thus "This album just goes to prove that this man is as good as any composer in the world" - how come Mr.L.Subramaniam "conveniently" "overlooked" the BACH factor ?
Did he have any strange "affection" for IR ?
Srikanth, I had never been interested in cinema since my childhood - it was IR's music which brought me to taking interest in movies - during the eighties, I used to critically analyze each and every song of IR before calling it a quality one -
even now, as I stand neutral, the sheer awesome quantitative quality of IR's work is forcing me to abstain from most of ARR's works - not because, I have anything personal against ARR, but , I just can't explain this ...... I used to watch three or five movies a year once upon a time - this lack of interest changed only after I started listening to IR's music -
Time and again, I tell myself , "indha aal yenna periyya kadavulaa, after all another human being like me" - and BANG comes a "velli nilavey " from "Nadhavana theru" and again I tell myself - Raaja avvalavuthaan - bang comes a "Mahanadhi" and now, when I told myself that people everywhere must be tired of Raja, BANG comes "Kaadhalukku Mariyaadhai" - now, please tell me, ARR has been around for say, 6-7 years, by the same time IR was in 1983 - just compare both the outputs - now, please wait, Kobathhil pongi yezhuvadharkku munnaaal , I will have to tell you that, as a hard core critic myself , who repeatedly criticised IR during my school days, only to see (or hear!!) IR come up with a brilliant VALAYOSAI,
Naan Yenbadhu NEEYALLAVO etc., I also try to critically analyse ARR's works - beleive me Srikanth, despite my mind rejecting, I am forcing myself to like ARR's music, because , after IR,in the distant future, ARR should carry the mantle of IR - not only me, we are a gang of 16 in Madras - all of us vehemently criticise music/musicians - we all feel so .
can you care to reply for this posting
- From: endrendrum_irfan (@ gw2.awo.com)
on: Tue Jul 14 11:12:59 EDT 1998
I am an oldtimer of TFM discussion forum. I was off from TFM page due to various reasons.
First of all, IMHO, there are many reasons why Raja has more hardcore fans than others. Raja might have composed a song only using a harmonium and a tabla. But he can bring out soulful music from any musical instrument. For example, one song which
has very less instrumentation is "pottu vecha oru vatta nila" from Idhayam. The song invited so many people to the movie. I also find some of ARR's songs very good to listen to like "Uyire uyire" in Bombay. But, many of his songs fail to make an impression in my mind. I cannot explain why. But when I listen to Raja's songs, I am transported to another world where everything is beautiful and blissful. Most of his songs stay close to my heart. Do you think anyone who has similar feelings can explain? So, when you are overwhelmed by something that does cause an influence upon you, I do not think you can accept anything that is against your object of affection :-)). This is a pscyhological explanation. I do not think the technical intricacies of a song matter to a fan.
- From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu)
on: Tue Jul 14 12:07:00 EDT 1998
endrendrum_irfan: I don't think Srikanth is objecting to IR devotion. He himself is a big fan. He is objecting to ARR bashing as a form of IR devotion. IF you haven't been around for a while then you would have missed the evolution of Srikanth's neutrality into a sort of IR bashing, mostly as a (subconsious?)process of moulding himself to what others thought of him.. :-).
Madhan: What I feel that Srikanth wanted to say was that it is as absurd to look for pieces of "inspiration" in all of ARR's score as it is to blame IR for lifitng pieces of WCM in his songs. BTW HTNI (How To Name It, Geetha) was supposed to be variations on Bach's themes and hence it is no surprise that it has many of Bach's pieces. The genius is in how they have been blended-in in those pieces and thats what L.S. and many others have praised.
Let me quote from the sleeve notes for HTNI: I met Bach in my house begins with an invocation that at first is contemplative, introspective and becomes increasingly imprtunate; it comes to a climax and is interrupted by the first notes of Bach's Prelude to his violin Partita III. The Prelude is soon played out in full in a brilliant dialogue with Indian instruments.....
Some of the other pieces are also such variations.
- From: Srikanth (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Tue Jul 14 13:45:04 EDT 1998
First reply to Endrum RajaFan :
Raja is the only composer in India who writes score wiouth touching any instrument.
Like Beethoven- Beethoven became deaf in later part of his life but still he was able to compose as he knew the sound very well. Our man is also of the same breed.
I have never degraded Raja's composing or scoring ablities..
(here my urusanam sequence in RJAY midi page, one of the best chord progression bt Raja for MSV's great tune.)
As Ravi says I am no day against raja, only againt his Hardcore fans postings against ARR - his fans here degrade all the musicians around the world,
Thinking they are supporting Raja.
Thanks Ravi for supporting me. None of this guys except few posted a reply to Aravind when he said IRs BGM is overdone, I fought it and stopped this crazy claim against IR.
All this have been forgotton and now I am standing here as a HCARRF - Hardcore ARR fan.
Madan :HTNI - there is no question about it. it is a great work., ..
TFM is more important to me rather than Raja or ARR - give importance to the all the...scores
- From: endrendrum_irfan (@ gw2.awo.com)
on: Tue Jul 14 14:58:50 EDT 1998
Even though I have been out of TFM-DF, I have been going through the discussions till date. I do agree that there is lot of ARR
bashing going on. But I could also observe IR bashing going on parallely which might not be as 'intense and global' as ARR bashing. IMO, any hardcore fan will not accept his idol's rival as it is a mental block to him in accepting his idol totally. So, I don't think anyone can stop a fan from talking about IR or worshipping him. Today one group of DFers might worship IR and fall at his feet and tomorrow there will be another group which will fall for ARR. As regards muisc, this is a common reaction which would be observed in any part of the world. In the US, the word "Beatles" still causes many people to go into frenzy even though the group is not in the top list. And how is "Elvis Presley" considered? Still many people think that he is alive and there have been reportings of many "Elvis" sightings :-)).So,IMO, such discussions will never come to an end and talking about
ARR bashing or IR bashing isn't going to help.
IMO, you can enlighten us with the technical intricacies of
songs from various MDs as many DFers are not aware of such details.
- From: MPR (@ dyn07.iacc-t23.ndsu.nodak.edu)
on: Tue Jul 14 22:29:39 EDT 1998
I think now it's my time to stay out of
this IR vs ARR war.
- From: Ganesh (@ www.integra.co.in)
on: Wed Jul 15 05:04:17 EDT 1998
Just to give the other side of the story
'I used to watch three or five movies a year once upon a time - this lack of interest changed only after I started listening to IR's music'
To me it happened after I started listening to ARR's music!
- From: nAradhan (@ horus.erlm.siemens.de)
on: Wed Jul 15 07:50:06 EDT 1998
bash bash (bEsh bEsh) Rehmaan! keep it up!
- From: Balaji (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Wed Aug 5 13:24:58 EDT 1998
I am very new to this DF. I am glad to see the friendly and enlightening nature of the discussions here inspite of hot and never ending topics like IR vs ARR. Only once I had ever seen SCI (soc.cul..) and that was the (and will be the) last time. People are too indecent there and I feel it is the most stinking place one can ever see. Please keep up the enlightening nature of this DF. We would expect the knowledgeable ones to throw more light into the intricacies of TFM and music in general.
- From: Ravi (@ greed.cs.umass.edu)
on: Wed Aug 5 15:11:39 EDT 1998
Balaji: On behalf of all the DFers, thanks for the compliment
- From: MSK (@ marimuth-nt.qualcomm.com)
on: Wed Aug 5 16:48:29 EDT 1998
Well! I accept that ARR should not bashed just to bring up IR's greatness. And equally important is in no way you can compare the talents,creativity , acheivements of IR with the likes of ARR , Deva etc just based on their success !!
Sure, ARR is a great sucess all over India and Deva is the # 1 in TFM. ( Though i personally cannot understand why.?? But my opionion does'nt matter. TFM audience have accepted and that's what counts ! )
But that does'nt mean that they are as great as IR .. atleast now. IR has scored more than 800 films each with atleast 5 songs. How many has ARR scored
? 40 ? 60 .? How many songs has deva composed.?? not only in Quality, but also in terms of Quantity there is no basis for comparison. Any good music lover should realise this.!! I think Srikanth pretty well knows all this, but just gets overboard when he sees people bash ARR .. that's it !!
So talk about Merits/demerits of ARR's song.!
And when you talk about ARR's music don't drag IR's name. So if some one here says chutni is good and you don't agree, then come up discussion to prove that chutni is indeed bad.! But Don't start off by saying Sambaar is bad too. This is what is happening here often.
Correct me if i am wrong
- From: Srikanth (@ 134.bridgeton-01.mo.dial-access.att.net)
on: Wed Aug 5 19:33:13 EDT 1998
My Name again!.....
I dont know who digged out this war ground once again. I request Ravi to take this topic out,
Rumba bore adikutu - ARR epidiyavathu ketu potam - I dont want to fight!....
When People like Aravind Kumar just talk 100% poor about IR (for which none of the IR-Devote's bothered to post a reply to him) I dont know why IR fans attack me inspite of being in the middle
Dont Care - Srikanth
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