Topic started by x (@ 184.108.40.206) on Thu Sep 19 13:48:54 EDT 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
It has been bothering me for a long long long time...How come people dont like IR's songs?
I can understand and accept to some extend that a lot of people don't appreciate IR's music in the last few years...for obvious reasons. But it's so hard for me to believe that in many other TFM threads, people say that IR has been a disgrace to TFM, IR's pre 92 songs sucked etc.. etc... How in the world is it possible for them not to like IR's songs of 70's 80's and early 90's??? Do they bash IR just to piss off IR fans and me the ARR fans happy? I just want to know.
So I started this thread for those who think IR is not a great MD in their openion.. Pl note that this thread is NOT for bashing IR. If you honestly think that IR's earlier songs do not appeal to you then explain why. Forget about his latest songs. I am talking about his 70's and 80's. Seriously, guys give your true comment, technically, non-technically on each of the following songs that make it not so great in your openion. Or comment on any other song that became a big hit but did not deserve to be a hit in your openion.
1. andhi mazhai pozhigirathu - raaja parvai
2. aanandha raagam -- all songs
4. ninaivellam nithya
5. azhage unnai aaradhikkiren
6. vaa ponn mayile - poondhalir
7. ilamai kaalangal
8. sindhu bhairavi
9. rasathi onna - vaidehi kathirundal
10.aval appadhithan songs
12.partha vizhi - guna
13.sangeetham megam - udhaya geetham
14.songs from idhaya koil
15.agni natchathiram songs
16.yamunai atrile - thalabathi
17.engengo sellum - pattakkathi bhairavan
18.kanmani nee vara - thendarale ennai thodu
19.thalayai kunium thamaraye - oru odai nadhiyagirathu
20.meen kodi theril - karumbu vill
21.poo pole un - kavariman
23.mayile mayile - kadavul amaitha medai
24.manjal nilavukku - mudhal iravu
25.mouna ragam songs.
Man, I can't list them all. It's too tiring.... so I stop here.
2 humble requests:
1. Please no fights.
2. Please dont criticise IR or anyone personally. Just talk about music alone.
I am aware that people below 20 yrs old may not have heard the above songs. Those people (or anybody who haven't heard a lot of IR songs), pl dont pass any comments bcos you are expected to have anything to say.
- Old responses
- From: fed-up (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Fri Sep 20 12:19:11 EDT 2002
Why is Awe going on and on about God.
Looks like he is asking to be abused.
Please stop provoking any one.
- From: Awe (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Fri Sep 20 12:29:50 EDT 2002
magix.. i think you misunderstood.. i liked EMV songs.. His songs like Padi Vaa Thendrale can be used even in 2010. He gave so many ahead of time songs. The song perfectly fit the bill. I liked it. One can say Lord Of The Rings music also outdated.. because it used the same kind of orchestration hollywood has been using for years.
'Salangai Oli' songs are crap. These were the words from your esteemed ARR fan. Speed is certainly a factor. If you have ever sit for composing a tune you will understand why speed is important. Why every knowledgable musicians from John Scott to Lalgudi Jayaraman appreciate this quality. Because they know a thing or two about its importance. He is not getting powerful subjects like Sindhu Bhairavi.. Mudhal Mariyathai these days. Listen to the song of the day. You will understand why he stands well above the rest of the musicians. magix.. i think you must be in the early twenties. Ok let me educate you some things. Music should not be appreciated based whether it makes a stir or not. Ok? All Rajini movies make a stir. All MGR movies made a stir? Can we call them outstanding actors above Sivaji?
There is more to it in the music world. When you get older.. you will start appreciating the nuances of music. "Senthamizh Then Mozhiyal" song must have been composed a long time back. But it is still a popular song. That is how IR songs are. They are immortal. Talk about Hey Ram.. how did you like that music.. How did you like the music in Azagi? Bharathi? You think they are craps? You want some BGMs of IR.. i will give you. Listen to them with an open mind. Having listened to so many wonderful western classics, i found one thing. Nothing is more compelling than Illayaraja's music. Just for the sake of keep in touch with current trend, i occasionally listen to modern rock, pop, jazz, country, R&B songs. Ok anywayz i am very glad that i am able to appreciate the genius of IR.
- From: IR fan (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Fri Sep 20 12:53:37 EDT 2002
Awe.. obviously he has not heard enough songs of IR. Ellam konja nalaikkuthan. Appuram "Nethodu vandha sondham kathodu poyachu" appadinnu innoru MD pinnadi Poiduvanga.. IR fans avarai vittu ennakkume poga mattanga..
- From: Bharath (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Fri Sep 20 13:13:43 EDT 2002
i think kiru's analysis in the 1st page makes most sense. he has covered all the points correctly.
that is my opinion too. Although I wud like IR re-invent himself completely and go bak to the glory days. what more cud be great for a tamil music fan to see IR, ARR, YSR in full flow and competing against each other.
I hope IR does it 1'ce b4 he fades away permenantly and show these young guys "how its done".
u are rite kiru. ARR isnt bad either :-) I think his days of "thiruda thiruda" "duet" " 1947" are still his greates. he shld get bak into the groove of tamil only movies.. and start doing 4-5 regualr movies every year.
- From: Naaz (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Sep 20 13:35:36 EDT 2002
Awe, X etc. -
I usually don't post or take sides in the IR-ARR issue.
While it is evident that choices and preferences change and differ from person to person, I am bewildered why x has taken on the project of understanding why "others" don't like IRs songs. When you know they don't, why do you bother? Wouldn't it be better to start a thread about Why People Like IRs Music?
When you pose a question with a negative (How come people DON'T...) you have to accept the posters' reasoning (whether it is informed or ignorant,)without being defensive, as you are the one soliciting a response?
And, frankly, how are any of these opinions (of others) going to make you change your mind? Or diminish IRs stature?
So, the solution is this: Talk to "People" who believe in IRs merits as an MD (and there are many rasikas out there,) and start something on a positive note. Discuss IRs songs in categories (there are many to fill books!) Discuss them in terms of "indianising western music" (ditto.) Discuss his music in simple terms, the highs and the lows. Discuss it in terms of "evolution" of tamizh film music (check the archives on TFMpage.)
Pesi parimaruvadharkku iththanai irukkum bodhu, yedharkku indha "naana-neeya" kuzhandhaithanam?
- From: x (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Fri Sep 20 14:09:09 EDT 2002
"I am bewildered why x has taken on the project of understanding why "others" don't like IRs songs"
--Bcos I want to know. Whoever is bashing IR in every thread should have a valid reason for it. Right? Go to all the sites and you won't get a clue why they are bashing. Is he that bad? For 25 years he has done wonders in TFM. People call him sori naai, koothadi, pannadai and what not and that without really talking about his music.. So I wanted to know, my friend. I wanted atleast one IR hater to come forward and explain to me why they are bashing his music.
"Wouldn't it be better to start a thread about Why People Like IRs Music? "
-- No. There is already a number of threads on that topic and everything ended up in fighting.
"When you pose a question with a negative (How come people DON'T...) you have to accept the posters' reasoning (whether it is informed or ignorant,)without being defensive, as you are the one soliciting a response? "
-- ofcourse. I am not defensive. When I started this thread, I anticipated some bashing on me too but I still started it. I am waiting for posters reasoning... so far none. I welcome any response that is meaningful. Let atleast one IR basher come forward and tell me how he/she concluded that IR's 70's and 80's are crap.
"And, frankly, how are any of these opinions (of others) going to make you change your mind? Or diminish IRs stature? "
--No. Others openion is not going to change my likings towards IR. I have this question in my mind and I want to get an answer for it. That's all. But from now on whoever is thinking of bashing IR and criticise IR's music either in this thread or any other thread, must first come to this site and justify their openion about it...bcos I can't ignore people attacking my favourite MD for no reason..
- From: Awe (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Fri Sep 20 14:18:04 EDT 2002
The thread was more to channelise the morons who baselessly accuse things like.. IR is koothadi, IR is "lucky", 95% songs of him became a hit because of luck and all those craps. I don't mind ignoring them. What happens is it affects the flow of the discussion. To get rid of them each and every IR fans try their own method which invaraibly ends like 'TamilNadu Assembly'. It is not going to change the mind of any IR fan or Harris Jayaraj fan. There is a fine line between being crazy and being critical. One or two ARR fans are flirting with that line.
- From: Lord LabakuDas (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Fri Sep 20 14:18:12 EDT 2002
koothadi sithan's vaaku:
thread varapoguthu thread varapoguthu !!
"How come people dont like ARR's music?" endra peyaril oru threadu vara poguthu..
koothadi sithan solren..thread vara poguthu..
- From: Naaz (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Fri Sep 20 14:35:31 EDT 2002
I am sorry, but you misunderstand my intent. I am an ardent admirer of IRs music and brilliance. Having said that, I am yet to see one full thread devoted to IRs music (among the current threads in the last 18 months or so,) that charts his music biography in an informed, tasteful and archival way (If I have missed any, please forgive me, and point me to the right sources.) What is more common is that most promising threads on IRs music (or ARRs music) degenerate into a sling-fest, where verbal power, flowers in abuse. Hardly productive,let alone illuminating. That is my personal lament.
As for you wanting to "know why" from the bashers, I have two disagreements (friendly though :-)): First, the bad news: Shouldn't you be content that YOU can see IRs brilliance, while the others can't?
Now the real bad news: You are giving the basher the power - another opening for bashing - and what's more you expect to have a "valid" reason from them for doing so? Could "bashing" not be a reason in itself? And haven't previous such incidents proven that to be the case to you?
I marvel at your optimism :-)
About coming forward with "meaningful" responses:
Once again, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. It's not going to come, I am sorry to say.
If your opinion about IRs music and talent is resolute, I don't see any reason for such proseltyzing. For that - your belief - should matter above all. And about regulating bashers to come to this thread before torching the rest - well, if that happens, that would be something to behold indeed :-)
- From: Bharath (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Fri Sep 20 16:19:46 EDT 2002
i guess X is trying to find people have deeper meaning.
sometimes people are so focussed on their opinions that they lose perspective of life.
X - you would rarely find people re-evaluating themselves and analyze why they are what are. most of them are content, obsessed and occupied with finding faults in others.
thats what i am doing now.. thats the purpose of this thread. thats what Naaz is doing to you.
in some cases its mild in some cases its serious enugh to ignite an argument.
well.. lets just say that these are the random perplexing things of nature which makes us what we are.. essentially human. irrational, overly emotional, biased, un-heeding, deaf, opinionated, dogmatic.. but human.
- From: Britto (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Sep 20 17:23:08 EDT 2002
I believe you will never get answer for this question. No humans hate Raja's music.
- From: outsider (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Sat Sep 21 01:13:02 EDT 2002
If you like, please visit the topic that you frequented sometime back --"SPB songs for tfm",
and if possible do give your valuable inputs.
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