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Topic started by Swaminathan N (@ infosys.inf.com) on Wed May 14 15:38:06 EDT 1997.
All times in EDT +9:30 for IST.
- Old responses
- From: shekh (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Tue Jan 21 07:30:29 EST 2003
ILLAYARAJA IS a lousy composer AT ALL TIMES> HE CAN eat Shit>>>
- From: guru (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Wed Jan 22 03:00:40 EST 2003
What about the "Thiruvasagam" composing in Symphony
- From: Ramesh Venkatraman (@ )
on: Mon Mar 3 00:14:18 EST 2003
On this sunday 2nd March edition of Dinamalar weekly magazine there is a mention about the release of the symphony at a function to commemorate the 25 years of IR in films.....any one has any news on this?
- From: SymphonicMan (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Mon Mar 3 01:43:28 EST 2003
LATEST NEWS ----
ILAYARAJA IS USING THE SYMPHONY HE COMPOSED FOR RAMARAJANS NEXT MOVIE AND RAMARAJAN WILL DO 'KARAKATAM' ON THE SYMPHONIC TUNES.
- From: O>M (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Mon Mar 3 05:01:48 EST 2003
Un Chun-niye Aruthiduven. Enga vanthu un kutti kunju velaiyellaam vatchukaathey parapayalaeyanae!!!
- From: Vijay (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Mon Mar 3 06:08:47 EST 2003
I got IR's symphony (NBW & HTNI) CDs atlast !
- From: purv (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Mon Mar 3 18:20:29 EST 2003
MUSIC GOD, is this just something you cooked up? Sure sounds like it!!
shekh, to be honest, I really feel like calling you something very derogatory! Anyone who has the NERVE to shout obscenities about someone else the way you so shamelessly did is just a human dog! You ought to be ashamed of yourself! >:-<
I'm sure that if you expressed your displeasure toward another person in a CIVILIZED manner, you wouldn't meet up with such criticizm!!
- From: bb (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Tue Mar 4 08:28:40 EST 2003
Symphony getting released? http://www.kumudam.com/kumudam/10-03-03/pg18.html
- From: av (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Tue Mar 4 09:38:39 EST 2003
I heard that IRs symphony not getting released has a lot to do with apartheid. How true is it?
- From: OISG (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Thu Mar 6 06:22:59 EST 2003
Apartheid ...Untouchability...veshti...Jibba...Kungumam....Tamizhar...Grmathu AALu ..Appuram? What else?
Apartheid practice by whom?
- From: A K (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Tue Mar 11 15:46:13 EST 2003
Why all this hep about IR composing a symphony?
He has been good at what he did, viz., the film music genre with good orchestration and melodies that blend of Tamil folk and Carnatic music, with a lot of counterpoint and stuff.
I doubt if his symphony would make an impression close to even composers like Mahler or Starvinsky (I wont even bring up Beethoven or Mozart). Much in the same way as Mahler cannot come up with the kind of music that he did. I say this because whatever I have heard from IR so far doesnt have a trace of a purely western classical idiom. (To appreciate what I mean you really have to listen)
So I dont expect him to come up with a new album that beats everything he did so far. But it may happen.
IRs music is very unique and novel in its own way, so why cant we accept it as it is ? As is the usual Indian mentality, we need western approval to cinfirm our originality! This is especially true of us Tamils.
If we had had a Satyajit Ray, he would have surely been lost to anonymity (certainly we almost did that to Bharatiyaar, and look at how Tagore was treated!!) His movies are all so specific to Bengali/Indian culture, but the Bengalis didnt want him to make a Hollywood movie to appreciate his art. And they held him in high esteem....of course there is no overstating his success in cinema all over the world.
- From: Eben (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Tue Mar 11 17:05:05 EST 2003
There are only very few people in India has learnt western classical music well. Indians have mastered Indian music, but when it comes to western music, they are far behind German and Russian composers. Rather than blindly praising IR, why don't someone learn music well and find out what he is lacking?
- From: Speaker (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Tue Mar 11 19:19:15 EST 2003
AK, Precisely true.
- From: ! (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Tue Mar 11 22:52:28 EST 2003
2003 great year for IR fans! ( I hope so!) IR's 60th birthyear and I have a feeling IR may give us the Symphony! BTW, this is the 27th year of IR in TFM, not 25th.
Looking at HTNI, NBW, India24Hours (especially this one) I think the Symphony will be totally original and definitely definitely as dramatic as IR film songs. Anyway, a film song is a shorter symphony in 5 movements and in 5 minutes!
- From: Srinivasan (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Wed Mar 12 12:18:45 EST 2003
It looks like finally the Kurinji is going to blossom :)
There is no doubt that Raja is one of greatest composers (in the world) of our times.
(Gyaana Soonyams like Shake won't understand! forget about those, always there
are two groups of people).
Music is a very sensitive and very personal thing for every person. Nevertheless the kind of music we play, we offend atleast one person around us in someway.
Definitely there is going to be two opinions about the music. Raja does not need to bother about opinions and criticisms and should consider his fans feelings and shall release his symphony now.
Definitely it will be a SUCCESS:
“Aathmaraagam ondrilldaan aadum vuirgal endrume...”
"Kaathirundu Kaarthirundu Kaalangal pooguthadi...
Cheers to all Raja Fans
- From: ilayaraja's fans club (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Mar 14 05:05:34 EST 2003
Hello every body i think it is a good topic started by Mr.Swaminathan, indeed Ilayaraja is a great composer of all times, he is the only music director who came without any influence in the cine field. He is a man born for music and dedicated his life for music.
i think people like Mr. Shekh are real assnholes i don't know how he can mock on Raja, i think he eats "SHIT" everyday since he is not able to admire Raja's music, even animals do admire. i
feel that Mr.Shekh is a all time "SHIT" he is not even fit for eating "SHIT". in future if this rascal makes any comment like this Ilayara's fans club will make him eat "SHIT" all the time in some Corporation toilet.
- From: Srinivasan (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Fri Mar 14 06:16:43 EST 2003
Folks from Raja's Fan club - please let's not loose our decency cause of people like Shake. Think he has just said those words to create more
discussions in our group.
May our words also be as soft and soothing as Raja's music.
- From: asish (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Sun Mar 16 03:33:09 EST 2003
IR's Symphony, not released yet? realsed! Why u people are very anxious about that. Haven't u all got a copy of HEYRAM VCD? That's the great Symphony Orchestron Tunes in Background. Is the HEYRAM BGM alone available in stores? Information please. I hear HOW TO NAME IT and NOTHING BUT WIND. So I feel very satisfied. Until he releases the symphony, these two will do. What abt India 24 hours? No Music shops in Chennai & Bangalore has a copy of that. Can anybody say where I can get it
- From: Prashanth (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Mon Mar 17 23:34:35 EST 2003
Hi All, All this talk about IR not being adept in Western Classical is just not right. I know a li'l bit of Western Classical and I know the intricacies(atleast to an extent). If someone has used the black-notes as well as Bach, it is our very own god, IR. Listen to the violin bit in mouna ragam wen karthik is being chased and shot. Its the height of Western Classical at its best. Agreed that he cant go into a deep foray, given the limitations of Tamil Cinema. And that is precisley the reason y we are expecting the symphony to be released, since in the symph he wud have freely experimented with Western Classical as he has no limitations as is the case in Cinema music. IR has Passed successfully the classical guitar (Higher Local) examination conducted by the Trinity College of Music, London, with honours and gold medal. And to all those nut-heads who talk ill of IR, I have just 2 words for you....SUCK IT!!!!!
- From: confused (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Tue Mar 18 14:01:00 EST 2003
If someone has used the black-notes as well as Bach, it is our very own god, IR.
Prashanth, what do you mean?
- From: me confused too (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Wed Mar 19 16:50:38 EST 2003
I dont think he knows what he means, black notes ? does he mean black keys on the piano.
I have no doubt about the technical mastery of IR in western classical music. In fact that is precisely my point... Technical mastery is not enough. You need to appreciate the western culture to WRITE purely western classical music.
There is an element of complexity that I dont see in IRs music, although I like it a lot for what it is.
Just listen to Beethovens 9th. The sheer power and grandeur of that movement is purely a western conception. And the manner in hcih various elements of the orchetra come in and go out is very complex and unpredictable.
- From: me confused too (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Wed Mar 19 16:51:51 EST 2003
In my previous post, I mean the Ist movement of the 9th
- From: I'll be stoned to death soon!! (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Wed Mar 19 17:19:30 EST 2003
actually a musician should not compose a piece keeping the western audience in mind. If someone does an extraordinary work no westerner is going to deny it.
- From: anand (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Wed Mar 19 18:21:40 EST 2003
of course no westerner with a good sense of music will deny the greatness of Carnatic music or IR's compositions.
But when it comes to a symphony, it must be to a level that will satisfy those who have listened to plenty of work by great western composers, and IRs music so far is of a very different genre to my mind. The composers mindset is so important in this. Even if he tries I am not sure how far he would be able to go in creating a purely western classical work. I have heard How to name it, which may be compared to chamber music, and it doesnt sound anything like a string quartet or other chamber works. It sounds great but is just different. IR music is so Raga based and there is always the predominance of one voice over the rest.
Pretty much the same holds true of a westerner trying to write Krithi like Tyagaraja. Its near impossible even with technical mastery as this is so cultural.
Note that I am not saying it is impossible for an Indian to compose a symphony, not at all.
- From: let us listen somemore and talk (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Wed Mar 19 21:08:14 EST 2003
me confused too (@ 22.214.171.124)
"There is an element of complexity that I dont see in IRs music, although I like it a lot for what it is. "
I disagree. Complexity is not evident in the substance of a symphony of Beethoven or Mozart. As far as I've heard some of the most complex melodies come from Shankar Jaikishen and Ilayaraaja. Examples: O Basanti Pavan in Jis Desh Mein Ganga; Yennulil Yedho Yengum or Kanden Yengum. Certainly, there are some Piano works of Beethoven and Chopin that are very complex compositions, but you cannot generalise and then say that IR lacked a certain complex element. If you can think at IR' level (I am able to ;--))
you'll see that IR' energies are devoted to creating complex interludes. When I mean complex I am not talking of the layers like alto, soprana, tenor and so on, which is what you probably refering to the complexity aspect. Western composers sit for days and months to achieve the complexity in orchestration, whereas IR as you rightly pointed out emphasises on tke underlying melody using voice or instrument and brings in the layers of orchestration as a consequence of a natural flow of the main theme. Western composition is about building a mood, a tempo, an environment and therfore contemplation, reflection etc.. are reflected in the slowing down of the tempo or using a single piano sound and then bring back the pace etc.. That is not complexity, that is sounds acceptable to the targeted listener, who are of course the non-folksy, sophisticated listener who decries folksy sounds or melodious music.
There is a huge difference my friend! IR does not drown his complex ideas with complex orchestration. In recent times, one musical idea that is intrigued me to no end is: the second interlude in the song O Baby, O Baby (kathulukku Mariyadhai), this one is as complex as Emperor Concerto of Beethoven or Chopin' Etude or something no. 105? (These are the only 2 western classical works that have so much depth!)
Another fact, complexity is a natural corollary to prolificity.
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