Topic started by eden (@ 220.127.116.11) on Tue Oct 30 07:35:01 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
We are used to reading in DF that such and such song had a great melody (even I could've posted like that on several occasions). However, while one can say `I like that melody' very much (which can be subjective, related to taste / bias etc.), is there a technical method to "rate" the melody? I expect good participation by techies...
- Old responses
- From: eden (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sat Nov 3 00:07:51 EST 2001
Sure Kiru, I like azhagE azhagu very much now, but when it got released, not so much like andhi mazhai (you see I was very young then:-)) Andhimazhai continues to be one of my all time favourites though, it is a testimony to Raja's brilliance / mastery in multiple musical genres. However, for some reason, I hated the andhi mazhai lyric at that time itself. Now, with age and maturity, it looks even more silly.
Coming back to melody, it's another general perception that ICM is more melodious than WCM due to the dominance of single tone & gamakams etc. Can some DF'ers with carnatic knowledge highlight on this? (I, for one, believes that ICM has `tough' melodies e.g. pAttum nAnE, but thematically WCM too is equally emotional)
- From: eden (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Sat Nov 3 00:18:21 EST 2001
oops, sorry for the mistakes:-(
- From: hihi:-) (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Sat Nov 3 21:59:05 EST 2001
it is a testimony to Raja's brilliance / mastery in multiple musical genres eden: i think this is more suited for azhagE azhagu dhEvadhai than andhi mazhai pozhigiRadhu.
- From: meloindian (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Sun Nov 4 02:19:31 EST 2001
ninaithALEY INNIKKUM, is one tremendous album all songs really great lesson for melody making.
- From: vijay (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Sun Nov 4 03:06:13 EST 2001
I would say that the "overall listening experience" to me personally of IRs numbers was more complete in his early 80s numbers as compared to the numbers that came before and much later..you point out IR being a little MSVish in the 70s..His orchestration and the quality of interludes improved dramatically somewhere from around the sigappu rojakkal time('78).
By overall listening experience, I mean you dont feel bored or a bit "let down" after an interesting pallavi because he sustains the mood created with his interludes..a songs is composed of different parts and interludes should work towards enhancing or at the least maintaing the mood that the song aims to create..I thought IR excelled in it in the 80s..
his early songs like "kannan oru kaikuzhandhai" paled in comparison to songs from say, Johny or nenjathai kilaathe because of this..(although I just loved some of his early melodies like "devan thiruchabai malargale", "uravugal thodarkathai" etc. because of the soul they had in them and which I find sorely lacking these days)
Thats what separated his early 80 songs from his own songs from other periods AND songs from other MDs before and later..not one dull moment anywhere in his song..His interludes were great tunes by themselves..
and Iam not sure(maybe raajangahm can ask him this) if he wanted to work on the sandhams as much as he wanted to work on making the song "more soulful" without making the underlying melodic structure too complicated..
some very great immortal melodies of the past like "malargal nanaindhana paniyaale" etc. have been built on relatively simple sandhams as compared to say, a song like "nandha en nila"..
That was more like Raja's thinking I guess..his "priorities" vis-a-vis MSV were simply different..
- From: kiru (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Sun Nov 4 19:46:13 EST 2001
vijay..what makes comparison between rAja's melodies and melodies of the past is that - we cannot tell whether the tune was written first or the lyrics (most likely lyrics). BTW, your examples are very apt. Both are fantastic melodies. My guess is, IR likes simpler sandhams. He probably wants to add layers of harmony over this. This way the melody can be 'highlighted' or made 'catchy'. My observation has been that many simple melodies of rAjA have some really interesting bass line.
(hihi are you referring to the interludes in the azhage azhagu song ?)
- From: hihi:-) (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sun Nov 4 19:59:27 EST 2001
kiru: oh yeah!. what a song (azhagE azhagu)!
- From: Anand (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Sun Nov 4 20:16:00 EST 2001
i'd like to say that a melody, or a song in general could be considered great if it vibed instantly without any lyrical or contextual (like where in a movie it occurs) support, that is purely as music. for example the song "uravugal thodarkadhai" from aval appadithan...i have not seen the movie and know little about it, but this song, even if devoid of its outstanding lyrics, resonates in our hearts and minds and holds us enchanted throughout. raaja's music holds several such instances, like "uravenum pudhiya vaanam" and "paruvame pudhiya" from nenjaththai killaadhe, "ilaiya nila" and "thogai ilamailyil" from payanagal mudivadhillai, and many, many more that i cant recollect offhand. to go back to the first song, it is a masterful blend of loss, sadness, hope and consolation, and so subtle that only a raaja could have produced anything like it.
- From: eden (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Mon Nov 5 06:54:24 EST 2001
There I fully agree with you vijay, the Raja songs that I like more are thrilling from start to end - seamless blending of melodies & brilliant orchestration (both accompaniment & interludes), so much packed in one song! No wonder that RDB commented after listening to kOzhi koovuthu that he's going to exhaust all the tunes soon:-)
That reminds me of the song `edhO mOgam'...a melodious number with great supporting elements! (My only wish - it could have had SPB)
- From: peeps (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Tue Nov 6 02:46:03 EST 2001
Eden nice analysis on Rajas work...i too have the same impression that Raja had the influence of MSV/KVM in his early songs..then he went on to create his own style..
what comes to my mind when i think of a good melody is that it shud flow like a river without having sudden jerks and jumps..a constant tempo shud be maintained thoroughout..Its not that a good melody shud have only less number of instruments..some heavily orchestrated songs of IR was great melodies..eventhough "andhi mazhai" wasnt a great melody in my opinion..but orchestration was mind blowing..
songs like "uravenum puthiya vaanil","ethetho ennam valarthaen","kanmaniyey kathal","malayil yaaro" comes to mind when i think of steady flow..and great melody..all IMHO
- From: eden (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Tue Nov 6 06:59:45 EST 2001
I think one of the meanings of the term melody is song (means necessitating words). I think a good lyricist (by this I mean one with musical mind & having good control over thoughts - not necessarily having a big vocabulary) can contribute much to the pallavis, like KD...any takers?:-))
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