Topic started by Vishvesh Obla (@ 220.127.116.11) on Wed Feb 21 15:28:41 EST 2001.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Listening to a few old tamil songs always reminds me of the golden era of Tamil Cine Music. The two decades from the late fifties seems to me to have produced the best light music in Tamil. The golden era not only belongs to MSV (&Ramamoorthy) but also minor composers like AM Raja and V Kumar who could create music which has taste and inspiration behind it. Perhaps the formative years of Tamil Cine Music had an element of genuine inspiration behind it that could shape the musical sense of even the minor composers.
I have observed the songs belonging to this era having a kind of organic fluidity that is so natural to good music. The tunes flow to the natural sequence of music and don't have the strain of an artificial imagination at all. The accidental notes fall so perfectly in their places and add charm instead of a jarring sound as one hears in modern tamil cine music. Take for instance a song like "Unnidam Mayangugiraen". It varies in its rhythm and tune so differently but as a whole it is so beautifully synthesized that it adds so much of beauty and charm to the tune as a whole. The variation of tune sequence (or the scale) in those songs always seems to blend and not forced as one sees in the songs today.
They still appeal to the music lover, for there is the charming simplicity of the tune which combines elegantly with the better lyrics (mostly from Kannadasan, who had a fine sense of the beauty and more importantly, a good sense of sound in Tamil Language). The lyrics, hence, came naturally without any forced or exaggerated poetic association. One notices that those songs don't involve much complex orchestration of modern light music, but nevertheless are so musically elegant ; there isn't any forced imagination ; no aping of Western music as in modern light music. We mostly find the composer in his natural elements trying to synthesize a musical expression in a medium 'native' to his sense of music. Even a later composer like Ilayaraja is original most of the times when he tries his hand at folk music with which he grew up with.
In contrast, today's tamil cine music seems to appeal to us only by the hi-fi sound effects and rarely by any musical sense. There is always the annoying monotony, one who has any musical sense, observes. I wouldn't say that the songs of the earlier period were all so creatively diverse in their compositions. One can't expect such a thing in a lesser form of music as light music. But then there was at least that part of experimenting and a genuine attempt to create something from the musical sense that was less falsified in its inspiration. The composer of those times, as one can observe, had a kind of devotion to music, which didn't just have commercial interests alone. It is seldom seen today.
It seems to me that it is more than a question of taste and listening pleasure alone when one responds to tamil film music of its formative period. Ain't it so?...
- Old responses
- From: Note Man (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Mon Aug 23 17:14:13 EDT 2004
" Quality is subjective "
By quality I meant feature, aspect or a specific technical aspect. Just like every field of study, there are comparitive lows and highs. E.g., Mozart's music is qualititatively more complex than say Deva's gana songs. This metric not subjective as there are technical parameters against which these comparisons can be made. IR is versatile in WCM because of his innovative use of the WCM techniques and not because I like him doing that. E.g., MBK is a quality classical singer because he can sing a classical song with all its intricate twists with ease. This is the clarification on my second point.
" I can definitely say the efforts put to compose Unna Veeda or Nen partha Parvai is notable than Kutty or Konji pesalama. "
Now, this is a relative comparison. It only means that you like Unna Veeda better then Thangachi (kutty) or Unnai Thedi (KP). I like Thangachi better than Unna Thedi and Unnai thedi better than Unnai veeda. But technically their ordering will be different. This is the quality I am talking about. But this does not count when selling. As an audience, I will only buy the cassette, if I like the song, Period. But if I am more interested in the composition style of IR, I will buy any song of his because that's what I expect from his songs, intricate compositions which take time to completely comprehend and increase the listening pleasure each time I listen to the song. Now tell me how many audience will really like to buy a cassette for such quality ? How many would like the pleasure of discovering new things each time they listen to the songs ?
- From: kr (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Mon Aug 23 17:29:03 EDT 2004
While people's preferences for what they like and hence what they buy are different and unique, where this discussion became contentious is when there was an attempt to cast facts aside and try to label IR as "predicatble" which to me was so farther from truth than the labe applying to other MDs.
- From: Jacky (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Tue Aug 24 07:01:20 EDT 2004
I understand your viewpoint of a curious listener dying to explore intricacies in IR's music but that's limited to a few fans and won't help to judge a MD's current form. Some fans love the man bigger than his music so objective criticism dies.
You are transfixed when you listen to Ilayanila or Pongatru - especially the mystical touches in this song, the same level of enthusiasm can't be there with Kutty,Kannathal,Julie ganapathy, Konji pesalam.
Probably you can start asking your friends and Relatives NHCIR fans - guys who love TFM and aren't biased towards any one MD.
Do they rate Kutty, KP and whatever you listen to love the intricacies that aren't so popular to the ranks of HeyRam, Bharathy or the other good movies by IR?
I won't be surprised if you find that the dividing line is not thin, infact a little wider than expected.
And this is what I'm trying to get across since yesterday :)
Efforts are not on to stamp IR as predictable, rather a candid view of reality is spoken here.
Can't accept it, i can only feel sorry.
You don't have to resort to such remarks every time to restore your calm.
- From: kr (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Tue Aug 24 08:17:27 EDT 2004
Unfortunately the reality alluded to here is not supported by facts - but based on opinions borne of bias.
By getting personal in alluding that I lose my calm, there is a demonstration of who is the one who is possibly losing his "calm". My comments and opinions have been based on rationale and never personal.
- From: Jacky (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Tue Aug 24 11:45:44 EDT 2004
"But to make an hypothesis that more people do not buy IR's music because it is predicatble may be your opinion but unless it is validated by a survey of the sort that Maddy did with regression analysis to actual buying habits, it is just that..your opinion which is different from mine."
I thought you said this!
You must have left it at that, you kept pressing the button again and again.
Though you didn't address me directly!
That doesn't mean its not personal. There are very few forumites talking in here. And its implicit who you meant.
- From: k (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Tue Aug 24 13:46:50 EDT 2004
"You are transfixed when you listen to Ilayanila or Pongatru - especially the mystical touches in this song, the same level of enthusiasm can't be there with Kutty,Kannathal,Julie ganapathy, Konji pesalam. "
I think Jacky's got a point here. My take on this is that the examples given here are a combination of music and impressionsitic lyrics by vairamuthu. IR's preference has strayed away from these sort of poetry. He still makes fantastic popular music. Maybe not in kutty or julie ganapathy but in movies like kochu kochu santhoshangal, siraichAlai etc. I do think hEy Ram and bhArathy should rank among the all time hits by IR. There are some good hits in kanna unnai thEdugirEn as well.
Even though I dont think vairamuthu is a serious lyricist (like kannadhasan, who is a better match for IR) I am looking forward to IR and vairamuthu teaming up again, especially for a rustic bhArathirAja movie.
- From: Jacky (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Tue Aug 24 15:22:01 EDT 2004
Ilayanila and Pongatru had very good lyrics. But i think even with average lyrics these tunes simply had the magic to carry itself to common audience.
Kannan vanthu padukinran, Raja raja cholan, Anjali Anjali are a few examples where the blend was perfect, still these songs could have been popular just for the tune.
While in Malaiyoram vesum kathu its the lyrics that impart more soul into the song, elevates it to a higher level.
- From: kr (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Tue Aug 24 19:51:00 EDT 2004
Even the statement that you had in quotes does not question your calmness or levelheadedness or anything which is what I meant by getting personal. All I said in the quotes was that calling IR predicatble is just one person's opinion without factual basis and my opinion is different from it. There was no implied superiority or inferiority alluded to the opinion itself. But your posting of "you lose your calm" gets personal by implicating that the responses from me are derived out of an agitation from the postings that ascribe a matel of predictability to IR without regard to factual considerations rather than a rational, analytical opinion to the contrary.
- From: Jacky (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Tue Aug 24 22:36:31 EDT 2004
what's a factual consideration?
Agreeing with you?
Sorry I Quit.
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