Topic started by M. DIWAKAR (@ j56.bkj32.jaring.my) on Wed Apr 1 10:40:56 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
FOR LOVERS OF TAMIL FILM SONGS, THIS WAS PROBABLY
THE GREATEST COMBINATION AFTER THE MSV-KANNADASAN
ERA. IS IT NOT A SHAME THAT THE PUBLIC IS DEPRIVED
OF GREAT MUSIC AND GREAT LYRICS BECAUSE OF SOME
CAN WE, AS MUSIC LOVERS, DO SOMETHING TO BRING THEM TOGETHER?
- Old responses
- From: gOpAl (@ 1cust68.tnt1.sarasota.fl.gt.uu.net)
on: Tue Apr 7 00:53:54 EDT 1998
Prod/Dirs/Trend indha moondru factorsthAn appO lyrics survive Aaga kAranam yendru koorinAl, adhu muzhumaiyAna kAranam illai yendru nAn ninaikkirEn. There is bound to be some kind of evolution. But, at one stage, there cannot be a song that has got only thamiLish words, western kind of munagals, etc.,
I feel this is more an issue of evolution thanks to SKji's thread "Tit bits..." wherein, we must be surprised to read CSJayaraman's comments about songs like "Aththai madi" etc., So, in those days, words like aththai madi meththayadi, must have been unacceptable. This is mainly due to the evolving code of conduct in the film industry. Its the question of how people would react? So, in the beginning, everyone in the industry was worried about the clean and neat image that the movie was likely to project. The dress code, dialog delivery, comedy, etc., every department had its own limitations, and the artists (in all fields) generally thought acceptability by audience was mainly based on decency. Yes, there was some kind of a pointer toward morality. So, no soul tried to go against this established norm. You know that singing, clear dialog delivery, horse riding, dancing, silambam, etc., etc., were canonical in those days for a person to enter the film industry. But, there was no rule that was slated that said "exceptional lyrical talent is a must for a writer" because, it was the very edifice on which the film industry was built. In simple words, it was a matter of decency, at that time of film making as it was in its budding stage.
Now, come to the present. Everyone knows what lyricists are writing. The language, in general has suffered a lot of dents, thanks to evolution. The Madras rickshawwallah knows more languages than the professor of philology in Madras Univ. So, there is bound to be disparagement of quality. Now, this is not likely to matter because, we forget the rickshaw guy's language at the door steps, but, hum the songs of the lyricist, may be even at the most oddest of occasions, like the prayers, parties, etc., Now, this makes an impact. Got it?! So, even if the lyricists try to restore the beatific charm of our thamizh songs of yore, they shall only be called "pazhasu" or "perusu" or "fruit" etc., So, the lyricists by trying to be more puritanical in their verses, shall only dig their own graves!! The lesson here, now, is you dont have to be an iconoclast, you have to just "oorOdu oththu vAzh". The rest comes to you automatically.
The real "compromise" in language must have commenced after kaviyarasu KanndhadhAsan, vAli, marudhakAsi, pulamaippiththan, kAmakOtiyAn, etc., had their big time. Well, When these people were around, what they wrote was almost decalogue. The society was developing technologically. English was no more a foreign language, but turned into a fashion language. Even in those days, songs had lots of english words, and we have a separate thread on this topic I believe. So, if you look into the lyrics of date, you will definitely find English playing a greater role of havoc.
Let me just try this:
The songs of 1950s: First generation
something like this:
Guna sundhari nee - undhan mana
mOhanamE yennai kavarudhE kayal
vizhiyAL yennai kollAdhE madhuramE (Guna sundhari)
karpagamE nee yennai kavarum
karumkuyilO kArmugil un koondhal theenda
kalangum yen manamO uyirO siththam
sidharudhE undhan yezhil yennai
koLLai kondadhE sarasamAdum silaiyE
yAzhisai ini nee pEsum mozhiyE yenakku
kalAvAni sundhari.....(Guna sundhari)
The 60s songs: Second generation......
Aththai madi meththaiyadi
alli vizhi moodammA.............
padukkaiyai iRaivan viriththAn
vannappaniththiraiyAl adhai maRaiththAn
paruvaththil Aasaiyai koduththAn
varum nAnaththinAl adhai maRaiththAn..........
The 70s/80s: Third generation
rukkumani vandi varudhu
yAr vaRavai thEdugiRAi
manasukkuL Aasai vaiththa mannan vandhAnA
uravukku arththam solla
90s: Fourth generation
ada O ranga sri ranga koppara thEnga
pArunga nArthanga mAngA............
lavvunna lavvu idhu mannenna stavvu......
kOkilamE nee kural koduththAl
unai kumbittu kan adippEn
gOpuramE nee sAyndhukondAl
un koondhalil meen pidippEn
all jeans songs.........
Now, moving from one gen. to other (eventhough the listing is greatly miniscule)
I find a pattern of clarity evolving. The more unrealistic words were replaced
by very practical, down to earth words. More English words in the songs, more "double meaning" etc., Also, VM stands apart here. He did go pragmatic in his words, not ideas. Discussing jeans lyrics is out of scope here. But, just look into the "kAdhalan" song "yennavaLE". When the approach toward lyrics in movies, has undergone huge change, he tried to revive some kind of classicism (neo?) by trying to sound 1950yish. He has definitely failed there.
When Raaja was asked to comment about his tunes sweeping over the lyrics, he said
"What can I do? There is dearth of lyrical artistry now. When i set the tune, these lyricists buy time to fill the tune with words, go around parks in the city and get back to me after few days, saying they are not able to find right words for my tune".
Vairamuththu, may be, thought, clinging to changing styles, in the lyrics portfolio, must fetch him more laurels. But, he has extended the boundaries at which point it neither looks thamizhish, nor English, and is more Vairamuththish.:)))
IMHO, Raaja need not invite VM. VM's poetry is of the nonextant genre in the musicality called Raaja His music does not need lyrics. His music is such. Vairamuththu may, by joining hands with Raaja, can buy back his lost poetic imagery, identity, in general.......
- From: Gokul (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Tue Apr 7 20:49:20 EDT 1998
Thanks But adhu Enna Gokul NA (Like CitiBank NA) :-)
Wow.. This Thd is becoming Real Interesting. Good Job on the evolution GoPal.
Dont feel Sorry For Blah.Blah!
You have raised some real interesting questions..
The implication that the quality of Lyrics declined after IR & Others
is a pretty moot one. Thamizh Film Songs have always had good & crass lyrics.
Right From the days of KD.& Prior! The way words are being used now is entirely different
from the days of yore but underlying crassness never went away.
The justification that 'KavinGar does not write creatively because of the popularity
of songs like "Raja Raja Thaan" or "Chikku Bukku" ' i
(IMO, Chikku Bukku Rayiley has been written excellently and is a trendsetter.
It is what I call a "Cool,Fun & Hip" song.
It is sad to see such humor missing in the same kind that proliferated later.
Examples are: Nothing (Uyirey Uriyey) , Take IT Easy (Kaathalan),
Achutha (Velai) & LBNL Col-a-mbus!) does not really gel.
A song's popularity is always because of its Tune/Music etc. I Dont think
Words hit you as much as music does. The Beauty of Music is augmented by worthy words.
Popularity of certain songs (rather tunes with awful lyrics) should not encourage
a KavinGar to write junk! Then I dont think He/She deserves the title "KavinGnar"
(Kaviarasu is an offence). A true KavinGar irrespective of the medium will always
provide creative and artful contribution.
- From: pinchivasan (@ 1cust65.tnt6.nyc3.da.uu.net)
on: Thu Apr 9 16:00:02 EDT 1998
Dear Gokul na,
Ennamo ellarum ungalai Gokul na innu address pannirundangale nnu naanum appadiye ungale koopitten, avvalo dhan Gokul na.
- From: Gokul (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Thu Apr 9 20:17:04 EDT 1998
That is Thambi Bhaskar's Style of calling
Let the privelege remain only with Bhaskar..:-)
Call me Gokul..:-)
- From: Raja (@ j57.jhb55.jaring.my)
on: Sat Apr 11 12:52:46 EDT 1998
I am not at all impressed with V M. His style at times is crude and does not supporto his claim of being the successor of Kannadasan. I think Valli is a better poet than V M.
- From: Sathiya Keerthi (@ panorama.nus.edu.sg) on: Sun Apr 12 13:52:46 EDT 1998
The following is an article written by VM some 5 or 6 years ago. I have taken it from a book on TFM Lyricists by Dr K. Kalyanasundaram. I am posting it here since it is related to the topic of this thread.
isai gnaniyE! ennOdu sErndhudhaan vetri peRamudiyum endra nilaiyil neeyum illai. unnOdudhaan sErndhu vetripeRa mudiyum endra nilaiyil naanum illai. en ilakkiya vaazhkkaiyin iraNdaam baagaththai thodangi vaiththavanE! thookki niRuththiyavanE! unnai ninaikkumpOdhellaam en manadhil eeramaana pakkangaLE padapadakkindrana. manaiviyin pirivukkup piRagu avaL pudavaiyai thalaikku vaiththu paduththirukkum kaadhaluLLa kaNavanaip pOla avvap pOdhu un ninaivugaLOdu naan niththirai seygiREn. thirai ulagil naan adhiga nEram selavittadhu unnidamdhaan. manasil michchamillaamal pEsi sirichchadhu unnOdudhaan. unnOdu sErndha pindhaan eththanai eththanai maatrangaL ennil! orE varushaththil sooriyanai en pakkam thiruppi suLLendru adikka vaiththaay. indha vidhaikkuL irundha virutchaththai veLiyE koNdu vandhaay. en peyaraik kaatrukku sollik koduththaay. sangeetha jaathi mullai en kaagidhaththai nanaiththu irukkiRadhu. eeramaana rOjaavE en kaNNil thirai kattiyirukkiRadhu. manidhaa manidhaa en narambaith theRikkum aLaviRkku viRaikka vaiththirukkiRadhu. pani vizhum malar vanam ezhudhum pOdhu EdhO oru dhEvadhai en meedhu poochchorindhu koNdE irundhadhu. iLaya nilaa ezhudhum pOdhu naan adhvaithamE adaindhirukkiREn. enakkuL irundha anubavangaLaiyellaam thONdiyeduththuth thudaiththirukkiRadhu un mettu. Sindhu Bairavi-yilum Mudhal Mariyaadhai-yilum enakku iraNdu pakkamum iraNdu siRagugaL muLaiththadhaay uNarndhirukkiREn. eppadiyellaamO ennai viyakka vaiththirukkiRaay. indhiya aLavil naan sandhiththa ellaa isai amaippaaLargaLumE sollivittaargaL nee siRandhavan endru. thamizh naattuk kaatru kadandha padhinaangu kaalamaaga un kuththagaiyilEyE irukkiRadhu.
neeyum naanum sEra vENdumaam. sila thooya idhayangaL sollugindrana. unakku njaabagam irukkiRadhaa? eeramaana rOjaavE ezhudhi mudiththuvittu aazhiyaaRu aNaiyin meedhu nadandhu koNdirundhOm. dhideerendru ennai nee thuraththinaay. naan OdikkoNdE irundhEn. mazhai vandhadhu. nindru vittEn. ennai nee pidiththu vittaay. appOdhu sErndhuvittOm. Enendraal iruvarum orE dhisaiyil Odik koNdirundhOm. ippOdhu mudiyumaa? iruvarum vERu dhisaiyil allavaa Odik koNdirukkiROm?
The author of the book further goes on to write some of his own comments:
iruvarum OdikkOndirukkiRaargaL, edhir edhir dhisaigaLil. iruvaril evaraavadhu oruvar Ottaththin dhisaiyai thiruppiyirundhaal iruvarum sandhiththirukkalaam. sandhOshiththirukkalaam. sangeetha sandhOshaththai namakkum aLLi vazhangiyirukkalaam.
eninum iruvarum iru vERu dhisaigaLil saadhiththuk koNdudhaan irukkiRaargaL. iLayaraja maestro aanaar. vairamuththuvO meeNdum meeNdum iraNdu muRai dhEsiya virudhinai Rahmanin isaiyil thiraippada paadalukkaagavE petrirukkiRaar. iLayaraajaa illaamalEyE thannaal orumuRai alla irumuRai dhEsiya virudhai peRa mudiyum endru niroobiththa vairamuththuvaip pOndru, vairamuththu illaamalEyE thannaal irumuRai alla, orumuRaiyEnum innOru kavinjarukku dhEsiya virudhaip peRa vaayppaLikka mudiyum endru iLayaraja niroobikkavillai. indha uNmai iLayaraajavin bala veenaththaip paRai saatrugindradhu enbadhai vida vairamuththuvin balaththaip paRai saatrugiRadhu endru eduththuk koLvadhudhaan sari.
The author goes on to say that Rahman's success in TFM had a LOT to do with VM's magical lyrics! That the author is a big fan of VM is quite obvious because, in the book, he mentions with some arguments that the break in IR-VM relationship was somewhat due to IR.
- From: admin (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Sun Apr 12 21:38:01 EDT 1998
test. pl ignore
- From: desi (@ )
on: Wed Dec 19 17:07:25 EST 2001
Vairamuthu is the best lyricist the is.. If you listen to his lyrics, they have great meaning are awesome. His rhyming schemes are spectacular, no one can come close to what he can do.
I've met him, and he's truly inspiring.
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