Topic started by Ramki (@ sparky.kohrman.wmich.edu) on Sun Nov 23 19:11:03 EST 1997.
All times in EDT/EST +9:30/10:30 for IST.

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Jun 10 13:33:40 EDT 1998
  
  AIADMK_Thondan,
  I love your utterly irreverant humor. Could you lend some of it to other DFers who are always up in arms?
  
  
• From: Prakash Balakrishnan (@ gate6.ca.us.ibm.com) on: Wed Jun 10 16:05:42 EDT 1998
  
  AMMA Pattu Padu suppppper..
  
  BTW AYYYAvukkaga oru mandhiri Thee midhichchu vaangi kattikittar.
  
  
• From: ramki (@ pm062-18.spindler.wmich.edu) on: Wed Jun 10 18:46:03 EDT 1998
  
  Kodambakkathil ippodhu paada padum paadal
  
  kondaiyil thazhampoo nenjile vazhampoo
  Sundar c marandha poo kushpuu
  andha kushboo
  
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ ww-tp02.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Jun 10 19:52:11 EDT 1998
  
  Since Udhaya has given a pudhukkavidhai alternative, Bones has done his usual Bones-eque alternative to "andhi mazhai" pallavi, let me try a conventional alternative borrowing from thirukkuRaL to maintain the original mood & tone of the song.
  
  andhi mazhai pozhigiRadhu
  sandhanak kuLiyalil ponmalar nanaigiRadhu
  vendhazhal mAlaikkuth thoodh(u) avaLE *
  thaNNilai tharugindRa thee avaLE **
  
  *Courtesy kuRaL:
  azhalpOlum mAlaikkuth thoodhAgi Ayan
  kuzhalpOlum kollum padai.
  
  **Courtesy kuRaL:
  neengin theRUum kuRugunkAl thaNennum
  theeyANdup petRAL ivaL.
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Wed Jun 10 20:20:55 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana, your verse is sublime. Can you please explain it to this paamaran? Especially, how did you get the, "Thannilai...avale" from the second kural?
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-td062.proxy.aol.com) on: Wed Jun 10 23:29:24 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya:
  Let me try to explain the verse without offending anyone's sensibilities, including mine.
  
  Line 1 from vairamuththu is self-explanatory. Line 2 is a logical extension where sandhanam is a loose metaphor for the andhi mazhai colored by the golden evening sun; pon malar is a metaphorical reference to the woman he's singing about. Line 3, from the first kuRaL, blames her as the messenger for evening time which feels like vendhazhal or scorching flames to him. However, line 4 likens her to a fire that cools.
  [The complete contextual meaning of the kuRaL from which line 4 is derived is a bit racy, so I'll just give the keywords & very rough meanings: neengin--vilaginAl, theRUum--sudum, kuRugunkAl--aNuginAl, thaNenum--kuLirchchi tharum, yANdup petRAL ivaL--endha ulagaththilirundhu ivaL petRAL?]
  
  I was just experimenting here with a technique kaNNadhAsan has used often (apologies to kaNNadhAsan): while dealing with concepts deemed to be delicate/sensitive he'll resort to using ideas and archaic words from classics to make the presentation less explicit and more sublime. His anbuLLa aththAn from kairAsi which uses several kuRaLgaL is a good example.
  
  And, while we're on the subject of andhi mazhai, the only creative lines in that song (IMHO) -- starting from nenju poRu to enaip poosugiREn -- are inspired by ancient thamizh literary piece called nandhik kalambagam.
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Thu Jun 11 13:30:41 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana,
  Thanks for your explanation. Please don't feel queasy about discussing literature and lyrics, we are all civilized adults here right? Intellectual curiousity has the license to go anywhere, there are no taboos to where the mind takes you(IMHO, of course).
  
  You are employing a very rewarding method to study old literature while improving your own creativity. I'll have to hit some of the old texts too. Thanks again for pointing the way.
  
  
• From: needs_kOnAr (@ bones.deneb.com) on: Fri Jun 12 01:32:09 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana:
  
  In the first try I couldn't understand most of the thing.
  But EthO fundu stuffnu thONuchu.
  After your explanation - konjam purinjirukku.
  
  Still, 2vathu kuRaL artham enakku sari varalai.
  methuvA padikirEn.
  
  nalla kaRpanai "santhanak kuLiyal"
  neenga engayO pOiteenga !! (enga ??)
  
  
• From: Bharat (@ dsi.mids.com) on: Fri Jun 12 10:16:49 EDT 1998
  
  Kanchana:
  
  That was really impressive. I'm not too good with senthamizh, and your verse was quite an eye-opener. If time permits, maybe you could give us more goodies.
  
  BTW, it is so interesting to note that the really ancient texts in almost any language are not restrained in their depictions of sexuality. Maybe all the hide-and-seek today is a legacy of our colonial forebears :--).
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 12 15:27:31 EDT 1998
  
  Bharat, you are dead on pal, our legacy was anything but hide-and-seek, I mean take a look the the temple sculptures, phew. Besides the colonial forebearers, the Mughal influence swept much under the rug too. Apparently a French scholar wrote a book about this enforced squeamishness on the Indian sensibility. I know I'm digressing, but this is truly irresistable.
  To save this thread from deviation, let me get back to the theme here.
  
  Here are some modern lines for Kannadhaasan's Kaalangalil Aval Vasandham:
  
  Suvaigalilae Aval Nagaichuvai
  Nagaigalilae Aval Punnagai
  Padagugalil Aval Paaimaram
  En Kodaiyam Kulirum Saamaram
  
  (the following is a homage to bones):
  Pranigalil Aval Pomaranian
  Poochigalil Aval Butterfly
  Parappadhilae Aval Jordan
  En Paalaivanathil Aval Garden
  
  
  
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 12 16:26:03 EDT 1998
  
  Correction: "Kodayam" should be "Koadaiyum". I also forgot the vallinams sorry folks, porutharuLungaL.
  
  
• From: Kanchana (@ spider-tc062.proxy.aol.com) on: Fri Jun 12 17:45:07 EDT 1998
  
  Udhaya & Bharat:
  Thank you for your views & compliments, and your interest in thamizh literature.
  
  Digression: Civilization is defined as the process of refinement of the society to a higher code of behavior by the dictionary. At some point in time "refinement" seems to have become synonymous with "repression" in several aspects of life; I've always wondered what significant societal forces shaped such a change in human history. Even during vaLLuvar's period, I doubt very much if real life mirrored the contributions from literature/religion in such arenas. It takes a lot of thinking, questioning and strength to overcome centuries of social conditioning constructively, doesn't it? Sorry for that digression.
  
  Udhaya, your verse is an appropriate homage to our Bones!
  
  Bones:
  andhak kuRaLukku muzhu arththam theriya ungaLukku kOnAr urai udhavi seyyAdhu. parimElazhagar urai padichchup pArunga.
  andhi mazhai endra vArththaiyai ninaichchAl gnAbagam varradhE thangam, sandhanam, manjaL indha mAdhiri vArththaigaLthAn; andhi veyilil minuminukkum thangak kambigaL mAdhiri mazhai etc etc. andha mAdhiri kaviththuvam uLLa vArththaiyai mudhal variyil ezhudhina vairamuththu En adhOda muzhu arththaththaiyum (poetic potential) maththa varigaLil extract paNNalainnu enakku eppOvum oru Achchariyam. [I had to go and spoil this full thamizh conversation with the word "extract" :( ]
  
  To Topic:
  What follows is a translation of a poem written by a friend on the web. The original verse is in English, so the appropriate "thamizhthuvam" has been introduced in several places (like the names of flowers, musical instrument etc.) Try it to the tune of Rahman's "en mEl vizhundha mazhaith thuLiyE" from May Madham.
  
  
  nilavin mozhi
  
  malliyin mellidai aNaikkaiyilE
  nilavu than uNarvai sollidumO
  mullaiyin thEnidhazh suvaikkaiyilE
  nilavu than uNarvai sollidumO
  alliyum punnagai pookkaiyilE
  nilavu than uNarvai sollidumO
  melliya uNarvai isaippadhRkE--veeNai
  meettum viralgaLaik kEttidumO?
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Fri Jun 19 15:55:21 EDT 1998
  
  Here's a topical song in the tune "Chandhiranai Thottathu Yaar Armstronga"
  "sandhanathai vittathu Yar VErappaNA ada VErappaNA
  sathiyama sollidunga VErappaNA adhu VErappaNA
  
  for the "Sandhana Marbilae Kungumam Saerndhadae" tune,
  "sandhana kAattilae sandaigaL tHErnthaTHAe
  nimmathi nimmathi"
  
  for the "Maratha Vechavan Thanni" tune,
  "maratha suttavan
  kambi ennuRAn"
  
  
  
• From: Chandramouli (@ alpxy4.att.com) on: Tue Jun 23 14:43:34 EDT 1998
  
  Continuing where Udhaya left on the topical song in the tune "Ninaikkatherindha maname"
  
  "Kadatha therindha maname unnakku valarkka theriyadha..
  Valarkka( Govt ) therindha maname unnakku kaakka theriyadha..
  (sandhana) marathai kaakka theriyaadha
  Kaakka therindha uyire( W.I.Davaram ) unnakku pidikka theriyadha
  Paarkka therindha uyire( Nakkeeran Gopal ) unnakku pesatheriyaadha
  Surrender pesatheriyaadha
  
  
• From: Udhaya (@ 205.218.142.217) on: Tue Jun 23 18:04:30 EDT 1998
  
  Chandramouli, that was great. Keep it going, I like your style.
  
  

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