Topic started by tamilian#1 (@ 188.8.131.52) on Wed Dec 4 10:15:48 EST 2002.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
I am fed up when a nice tune turns sour grapes due to the singers inability to pronounce tamil. The latest being "kadhal pesasu" from "Run".
Try pronouncing one word wrong in a Hindi song...There is a big hue and cry abt it. Even big names like SPB and KJY are made fun due to their accent.
How do we let the Tamil MD's know that a majority of us feel ROBBED of our money when the album that we buy has hindish sounding songs. let udit, sukwinder and sadhana learn to pronounce tamil properly and then come to sing...Is this too much to ask for?
- Old responses
- From: tamilian#1 (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Sat Dec 7 10:57:39 EST 2002
I don't agree with you guys who are saying that making hindi singers sing tamil is just part of the changing process of making music. Introducing western rhythmas, digital sound recording, moving away from pallavi and charnam based songs are examples of trying to be innovative.
Having some1 who cares hoot abt the language to sing is not innovation but just a cheap trick. Agreed some of the songs have become hits...but that does not mean that the trend needs to be continued..it is more like beating it to death.
I have no problems with burgers and pizza co-habitating with dosai and idlies...i have problem only with dosas made in the from of pizzas...it is just hard to digest..:).
- From: SABESH (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Sat Dec 7 12:39:51 EST 2002
Earlier Tamil film goers wanted Savithri,Sarojadevi,Vijaya,Jaya,Lakshmi....as heroines....Today they want Kushboo,Nagma,Simran,Raimasen...etc whose name they can not even pronounce....So there is nothing wrong in MDS opting for UDIT and SAADHANA....In Telugu films UDIT is ahead of SPB..Here atleast twice a year he is given chance....In fact we need UDIT for his boyish mischevious melody...SABESH
- From: Sam (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sat Dec 7 19:50:54 EST 2002
Tamil is a rough crude language spoken by jungle people. Hindi is sweet language. Hindi singers make even taamil sound sweet. Thats why directors prefer Hindi singers. Udit and Sadhna so sweet.
- From: av (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Sat Dec 7 20:00:29 EST 2002
As for KJY, he sucks royally in Hindi and hence the MDs stopped using him. I personally wish all of KJYs Hindi songs should have been given to some other singer, to salvage those beautiful lyrics. KJY mercilessly murdered each and every word, with great care. And he has often sung totally off key and out of tune in his Hindi songs. A good example is "Kaa karoon sajani" - just compare this song with the wonderful original thumri by Ustad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan. Another song thoroughly marred by KJYs awful accent and weepy histrionics is "zid na karo, ab to ruko" - the way he pronounces the word "nahin" is godawful. In his duet in Chhotisi Baat with Asha Bhosle, she totally outdoes KJY in every line they sing together. She sounds wonderful and effortless, and he sucks.
Many such examples abound. All his songs are reminiscent of the Carnatic style of singing, which is in itself beautiful, but seems miserably out of place in a Hindi song. Its the same idli-pizza analogy given above.
He didnt take even the bare minimum effort to sing well, and yet he shamelessly wanted to join the ranks of KK, Rafi and Manna Dey. Such staggering megalomania!
- From: av (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Sat Dec 7 20:04:13 EST 2002
Sam - mind ur language. Tamil is India¨¨s oldest language and a language with great literature. It sounds sweet to my ears. I was shocked to read your post!
- From: OISG (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Sun Dec 8 00:28:51 EST 2002
Sam is from Lallo s /Anu Malik s India,Tamil is from Abdul Kalam s /AR Rehman s india.Just that difference!you need not get angry AV!
The north of Vindyas is packed with Sams and Original Lallos.
Admin ,get rid of the Hindi pests whose collective IQ hovers around Minus One to Zero on a scale of 150 and reaches 11 on a scale of 10 which measures foolishness.
There was this moron who compared Seergazhi with Shabbir Kumar in one of the threads.
- From: TFM Lover (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Sun Dec 8 07:50:38 EST 2002
I agree friends,
Recently T k Karthik has sung, "Chori pe Chori", in the Hindi version of "Alaipayuthey", "Saathiya", since I am a person who knows Tamil and Hindi very well, I can say that Karthik has'nt made a single pronounciation or dictional error in the Hindi song and has done full justice to it. Even my Hindi speaking Friends have told me this.
What I am trying to tell is, when Tamil singers who sin gin Hindi don't make errors, why don't the Hindi singers in TFM try to sing a song well.
- From: av (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Sun Dec 8 10:51:35 EST 2002
here was this moron who compared Seergazhi with Shabbir Kumar in one of the threads.
This is really hilarious, I cant help laughing at this one. I would love to do a compare and contrast between Seergazhi and singers of the calibre of Bhimsen Joshi, or even light/film music singers like Manna Dey, but Shabbir Kumar? Thank God it wasnt Kumar Sanu or Lucky Ali, though :-)
- From: Comments (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sun Dec 8 13:48:31 EST 2002
I have no problem with Hindi singers singing the occasional song as long as they don't mangle Tamil words. Using Hindi singers is not new. Lata M. and Asha B. have been used by IR even before ARR appeared. IMO, Sadhana Sargam singing Tamil songs is better than Bhavatharani singing the same.
Unrelated to TFM:
Many Marwadis in Madras speak with a Hindi-ish accent. Rajini, even after these years, speaks with a non-Tamil accent and is well accepted. Wonder what some of the posters have to say about that. However there are many Telugu people who speak Tamil so well (i.e. in Madras Tamil accent) that it's hard to recognize that they are non-Tamils!
- From: Tamilian (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Tue Dec 10 00:21:24 EST 2002
Just Stop It. Dont dare to talk banning Hindi singers in Tamil. There are lots of stupid Tamilians, who themselves cannot pronounce Tamil well. They say "Palam" for "Pazham". A "FEW" Tamilians themselves kill Tamil in day to day life. I have no problem in saying that I am a person who can speak, read and write Tamil and Hindi very well.
If according to you people Hindi singers kill Tamil songs, then there are a equal number of Tamil singers who have killed Hindi songs like Jesudas and Sreekumar and many more.
Even Jesudas and some Malayalam singers are also no less in murdering Tamil songs with their COLD NOSE. I am not talking about the great Jayachandran.
Another man who murders Hindi songs is, Mr.M.G.Sreekumar. Remember A R Rahman used him for the Malayalam bit in Mani Rathnam's Uyirae (Jiya Jale ie. Nenjinilae). He also sang the song, "Oru Thulli" from "En Swasakaatre". If Hindi singers butcher Tamil songs, then even our own Malayalam singers are no less. M G Sreekumar almost murdered the song, "Kissa hum likkenge" in A R Rahman's "Doli Sajake Rakhna".
UDIT NARAYAN HAS A WONDERFUL VOICE AND NO HINDI SINGER SHOULD BE BANNED. DONT TALK RUBBISH GUYS. I FEEL UDIT IS A BETTER SINGER THAN MANY SINGERS HERE. HE HAS TO SING MANY MANY TAMIL SONGS AND AT NO COST HE CAN BE BANNED. UDIT HAS TO BE CORRECTED WHILE SINGING AND NOT BANNED.
If you wanna blame someone blame it on the Music Directors and the Lyricists for not correcting these people while singing. That's all. If you ban Hindi singers, we Tamilians would not have got many wonderful songs.
Mind it any singer who would have sung Snehidane in Alai Payuthey, could not have got that affection, love and the wonderful mersmericm of voice other than Sadhana Sargam.
Sadhana Sargam-Snehidanae (Alai Payuthey- no body could have sung the song better), Konjum Mainakkale (Kandukondain), Anbae (Rhythm) and others good songs.
I CONCLUDE BY SAYING THAT CORRECT THE MISTAKES AND NOT BANN THEM. MISTAKES ARE TO BE CORRECTED.
- From: vazhippOkkan ! (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Wed Dec 11 15:26:59 EST 2002
Bhagavathy review in Kumudam
"...'aLLu aLLu' endru oru dheyveega paadal.
paadiyavarin naakkil sarasvathy annai soolaththaal naalu izhuppu izhuththaal nandraaga irukkum !"
- From: Kupps (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Wed Dec 11 23:57:53 EST 2002
"If according to you people Hindi singers kill Tamil songs, then there are a equal number of Tamil singers who have killed Hindi songs"
If someone complaints that A hit B then someone else comes in rescue of A saying B hit C. Hence? Hence, can we say that "yaaanaikkum paanaikkum sari"? Whether a non-hindiwala(or for that matter a hindiwala) murders the hindi song with wrong diction/pronunciation or a non-thamizhian/thamizhian murders a thamizh song, WRONG IS WRONG. Nothing to compromise in it. Lets us not blame it on others.
Why should we blame only lyricist/MD for the wrong pronunciation/diction of a singer. What has happened to the initiative from the singer.
P.Susheela(PS) is supposed to be the best female singers in thamizh who had/has exhibited a "zero pronunciation/diction problem" and her mother-tongue is telegu. You know what she said when asked in an interview? "Thamizh is not my mother tongue. So while singing I wrote words in telegu and sing it. But before I sing "I ask" the lyricists and MD to help me pronouncing words. I use to sing the song before the lyricist and MD atleast once for the pronunciation/diction correction, before I go for actual take".
Even I feel LM/Asha were taking good care in not making grave mistakes in word pronunciation/diction while singing in thamizh. Ofcourse their accent will be alien but IMO they haven't made CONSISTENT mistakes in diction like Parvaa illai (instead of paravaaillai).
Nowadays it has become a fashion of NOT taking any care to pronounce alien words properly and not ensuring correct pronunciation of words(by MDs and lyricists).
I bet had LM/Asha/Rafi/Kishore/Mannadey given so much of thamizh songs as Udits, saadhanaas their pronunciation/diction would be almost perfect, because they had a care for what they sing.
A PS is hailed as "diction deity" because:
1) She had took initiative and care for alien words pronunciation.
2) Her enthusiasm Plus their own care for their language the then lyricists and MDs were very much helping her.
Ofcourse without those people (lyricists/MD) PS would not have excelled in thamizh. But the initiative MUST come from her. She should have (indeed, she had) devotion to what she was doing and it was complimented by the reciprocative action from the others.
Singing brings in more intimacy, more glory to a language and their people than speaking, so its OK (to a certain extent) to accept a rajini speaking Kaanada accented thamizh (even wrong pronounciation sometimes), but its definitely unacceptable when he wrongly pronounce thamizh words if he sings.
Moreover the fact/statement 'most of the thamizhs do not pronounce their language words correctly' doesn't give a License to Kill the language by others. The others should be like PS who should make the native speakers feel ashamed of their way of speaking their language.
- From: x (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Wed Dec 11 23:58:32 EST 2002
IT UP TO MUSIC DIRECTORS TO MAKE THEM SING PROPERLY OK. HERE IR IS BEST TILL NOW.
- From: Kupps (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Thu Dec 12 01:28:14 EST 2002
paratta paththavachchiteeyae paratta :-)
- From: Krishna (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Thu Dec 12 08:08:40 EST 2002
Another person to mention would be Sreenivas, who was nominated for several Hindi Music Awards for "Kaise Hai Yeh Rut". I still rate "Aao Sune" in Raja ko Rani Se Pyar Ho Gaya (Jatin - Lalit) as his personal best.
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