Topic started by The Fan (@ spider-wj073.proxy.aol.com) on Tue Oct 27 00:10:58 EST 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
This is one topic that somehow escaped most of IR fans. I think it is because we have all taken for granted Raja's creativity that weaves in an distinct and unique texture in the form of complex and unbelievable never ever heard before beats or rhythms. I was listening to Senorita, I love you' from Jhani. The exuberance and brilliance of the song's rhythm has left me wondering why and how in the world has such a rhythm never been done by anyone else in the world. What about 'Poongatre Un Per Sollu' in Vetri Vizha, or Vallayosai Kala Kala vena' in Sathya or 'Vanam Kizhey Vandan Yenna' in Thoongathe Thambi Thoongathey. Has anyone of you heard rhythms in these song before and after? Long before the song Muqabla, Mukkala came, IR used the western beat for a song in the mal version of My Dear Kuttichathan. You got to hear that song. There are some now making claims that Mustafa, Mustafa song's beat has been copied by IR in 'Ilavenirkala Panjami' in Manam Virubunthey Unnai. Let us list all the FIRST TIME INVENTED ONLY BY ILAIYARAJA rhythms (I am thinking there at least 500 distinct and new rhythms the only IR is the first in the world to use in his over 4,000 songs) I have not heard any composer who has has the versatility to INVENT more than 2 or more different rhythms for a song. Maybe, there were a few who used the standard heard before type rhythms in a song. So let us start listing. This is one of the facets of IR which has been overshadowed by his stunts with the orchestra and melodic surprises.
- Old responses
- From: Raghuvir (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Wed May 23 11:02:17 EDT 2001
KVM had a rhythm style of his own. Even today rhythm musician interview in press reveal KVM as a rhythm master with unique styles such as the one of "Chinna Paapa enga chella Paapa", "Muthu poley manjal kothu poley" etc.
Viswanathan Ramamurty style of rhythms as in AVMs song "Avalukkenna Azhagiya mugam" opening rhythm set up is really fantastic! Their Rerecordings especially for stunt scene was full of rhythmic permutations and combinations. They SET THE STYLE OF NEWER SONG RHYTHM PATTERNS WITH DIFFERENCE IN PALLAVI AND THE REST FOR THE FIRST OF ITS KIND IN TFM.
IR followed it and Iam happy that even new MDs are exploring new on this path of MSV-TKR.
Thaathaas are Thaaathas! IR thaatha is chinna thaatha! The grandsons are doing faaar better!
- From: velji (@ )
on: Tue Dec 9 22:27:12 EST 2003
I have listened to Hindi film music from the time of Saigal, Pankaj malik and so on. Hindi music Directors in a sense were conservatives. They did not experiment with the rhythm section. Their rhythm section mainly consisted of Tabla and drums.
MSV was the one who experimented with various percussion and other instruments like the one already pointed out "rhythms as in AVMs song "Avalukkenna Azhagiya mugam" and also in the song "avalukkenna Alagia mugam ..."
In these songs MSV used 3 separate rhythm beats and timings to create that unique vibration not even heard in the Carrebean "Tin Bands"
Hindi music wallahs like SJ, OPN, SC, SDB produced some great melodies with the regular rhythm section, that is all. They never experimented. South is the domain for that!
- From: velji (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Tue Dec 9 22:29:58 EST 2003
"avalukkenna Alagia mugam" has been repeated. What I meant was " Oru Pennai Parthu Nilavai parthen, nilavil oli yillai....."
- From: Rasika (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Tue Dec 9 23:47:55 EST 2003
Listen to the varied rhythms IR has used in the latest album, "VirumANdi". They are just too cool!
- From: i_n_s (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Wed Dec 10 17:13:35 EST 2003
velji that probably explains Rahman' novelty for north. talking of MSV-TKR rhythms how about this exemplary song? Naan Oruvarai Oruvar Sandhipomana Kaadhal Devadhai sonnaar....... especailly how the second stanza sounds in that tempo.... no words from me.
in response to that IR came up with "Malargaliley Aaradhanai.... MV/SJ in Thaipponagal or Karumbu Vil i am not sure which.
but, two awesome rhthms with extraordinary tune, moods and orchestration....
Rahman' rhythms are based on technology support... only those who have not heard the past find Rahman exciting because he accentuated percussion sounds and seperated the sounds more audibly than past composers.... so he can get away with the same rhythms and syncompated beats for each and every song ;----)
recently, IR has done that in Virumandi accentuated percussion really high and to kinda bring in the rahman fans, i think. But, in Sambhu IR had some superb sounds.
- From: velji (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Thu Dec 11 11:08:46 EST 2003
My dear i_n_s
You are right. That is it!
After all ARR came from the stable of MSV.
But as you have rightly pointed out ARR is a techno-musician. There is a downloadable program called "fruityloops". if you know the basics of music notation (western) you can compose your own music with the "obligato" and rhythm all programed into your composition. there is also a provision for taking a print out of the notations. But it is so complicated that an old man like me do not have the patience to learn it. Perhaps our ARR uses a more advanced programme like this for his orchestration.
Whereas IR is a real musician in respect of orchestration. He uses real instruments for his compositions. I have been in the music studios with IR when the songs of Nenjathai Killathe, Moodupani were recorded. IR is the only person who can talk from the closed recording room over the microphone to the instrumentalist giving notational commands. For the title song of Moodupani, his then pianist Mr. Trever (I don't know i spelt the name correct) IR issued instructions "drop that C crotchet or quaver" whatever it is and the pianist will correct his notation from where he is playing. This command of notational knowledge no one had but IR.
IR was also in the MSV troop before he cam to lime light and hence it is not a surprise that he takes the cue from MSV in respect of rhythm and with his excellent knowledge of western musical notation he excelled MSV in orchestration.
If this is so, you may wonder why I was so critical of IR in respect of his unreleased symphony.
It was just an expression of 'disappointment" on not able to listen to that !
- From: Mythila (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Sat Dec 13 05:04:08 EST 2003
Iam really surprised why nobody mentioned the complex beats of "Ila nenje vaa" from Vanna vanna pookal.
"Agaaya vennilaave" from Arangetra velai,
"Ippodenna thevai", an obscure marvel from MakkalAatchi,
"Anbe un mugam paaraamal"," Azhage un mugam kaanaamal" - fantastic melodies sung by Chitra from Anthapuram all these have unique rythm patterns
- From: Mythila (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Sat Dec 13 05:10:20 EST 2003
Sorry. The other song from Anthapuram is "Ammamma kaadhal vandhadhu"
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