Topic started by G. Kuppusamy (@ 126.96.36.199) on Tue Dec 26 04:39:11 EST 2000.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
"Maestro Illayaraja sidelined Isaignani Illayaraaja" - I feel this is the reason why ordinary music lovers nowadays say that IR (can) no longer produce(s) good film tunes. I putforth my points as follows:
Late 80s did not have Directors who wanted to get good tunes out of a MD except a few like Maniratnam, KB. late 80s directors just wanted some songs from IR. Bcos any product labeled IR was a sure hit. they did not bother much about fresh tunes. As a MD IR, on his part did justice in doing experimental stuff like fusion in WC and folk even in those films whose directors fall in the above said category.
By that time IR was well set in TFM. He rarely did voulantary fresh tunes because of too much music for lots of films which deserved not that much grand music. This is not a fault of IR at all. A director should convey new stories, fresh situations so that it makes a MD to give fresh tunes. I am not saying IR could not think fresh because even during those times we could get fresh tunes from IR in the movies of Mani, KB and other likes who demanded fresh tunes. Hence IR was underutilised in late 80s and in very early 90s.
Early 90s saw another blow to IR; even those who demanded good tunes from IR changed to ARR. New directors like Shankar who also demand good tunes did not choose IR. But few films like "Mahanadhi" had those "Isaignani" stamp in them (Isaignani i mean brilliant tunes and still could be appreciated by common music lovers).
But the stepping into shoes of Maestro alienated him more from the common music lovers. He still gives brilliant music in films but they are not appreciated that much as from isaignani's. He had only those directors who did not demand fresh tunes; he kept on losing demanders to other MDs; whatever voluantary music he did/does, he did/does them in experimental ways like WC and other high plane stuff things.
We cannot blame him for not giving voluntary things. He has been in the TFM for nearly 25 years and has given music for about 900 films. It is too much to demand a MD to always think fresh tunes on his own without having any good situations. What he keeps on getting is M&B plots. It is highly laudable that he is one of such great MDs who even after such adversities has not dried his thinking.
But on the other hand his thinking shifted to other direction; he turned more classical. Meanwhile other MDs have got good thinking directors to demand fresh tunes. This compounded with the reason mentioned above sidelined Isaignani.
I am a layman in Music. So I know my opinion has flaws. Hence other angle ideas are most welcome. But please...please...dont make it another M&B thread. Sincerly this thread is not at all intended for that.
We had many highly productive threads. Lets make this as one of those good lively debates...
- Old responses
- From: G. Kuppusamy (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Dec 29 00:10:41 EST 2000
No STS infact that 'Ok/Good/Bad' stuff gives a trailer of what is your opinion about the topic. That is the punch line...it should remain.
Thanks for your nice posting...
- From: kiru (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Fri Dec 29 11:47:45 EST 2000
"My question is why IR chooses western classical "
Because Indian music lacks what is the central pillar of WCM i.e. polyphonic sounds. (literally meaning multiple sounds). This is mainly multiple melodies playing together/against to provide harmony, counterpoint and fugue like effects. If you listen intently almost all of IRs songs have some WCM technique used. For eg. even a very folksy song like mEgam karukkaiyiLe has a very nice bass guitar playing. It blends so well you would never question whether our ancestors danced with bass guitars :) This my friends is the IR touch - make the song sound Indian inspite of using alien musical techniques. Contrast this with the new trend, the MDs purposely WANT the song to sound very 'westernised' including changing the pronounciation and using non-tamil singers.
RE: drums+bass. For real use of modern beats listen to kannA unai thEdugirEn and kizhakkum meRkum. Again the end effect is a totally Indian song.
- From: kiru (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Fri Dec 29 11:48:59 EST 2000
I was referring to the mEgam karukkaiyilE song from vaitheki kAththirunthAL.
- From: STS (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Fri Dec 29 19:36:03 EST 2000
Thanks for your info about WCM. Maestro uses Modern instrument and gives our native Indian music. Well said!
- From: M.Logeshwaran (@ )
on: Mon Aug 26 06:13:21 EDT 2002
Once in my life i'll join with him through 'HIS SOUL TOUCH MUSIC'.
- From: a (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Mon Aug 26 07:40:31 EDT 2002
- From: MusicIsLife (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Mon Aug 26 14:29:09 EDT 2002
GK: Congratulations on starting a new thread.
I like it better coz there are no derogatory statements by any of the people.
Actually in my opinion Maestro did not sideline Isaignani, it is just SIMPLY TIMING. Experimentations were always there. The sidelining might be due to changing preferences of the listening audience. Gnani has not been churning chart-busters and that does not mean bad music, it is just a perspective in hearing.
It is like Carnatic people talking about new singers vs old singers (even Subbudu for the matter of fact). It is difficult to create a genre of music that could be 'janaranjakam' as well highly experimental for a audience so diverse in listening preference. For the matter of fact Agni-Nakshatram, Anjali (though it belonged to MR to come up with a solid and different type of movie making), they fell into categories of being "JANARANJAKAM" and great different SOUND experimentation.
When people of a vision like Gnani experiment with Music like blending WC to Indian type, sometimes you cant just appeal to a lot of people, sometimes we find it a let
IR Music fans (like mass population) are so used to hearing a particular genre of music and the movies of those times did generate that kind of interest. IR music could be compared to having "mor sadham" from amma (not from our CM at the temples), simple, peaceful, and great. At-times we might fault with the food from even our mothers.
IR too sometimes made me wonder is he not caring or is he not too bothered with film music anymore, might be. May be he has much bigger agenda to satisfy himself and at the same time satisfy others. I feel sometimes he should be selfish and not compromise and churn out experimental music, but a wishful soul would miss the GNANI.
The appeal, liking and depth of music, differ from person to person. Though it would be better if IR gave some JANARANJAKAM music to shut the criticizers (that has become the sad part of TFM), alas the criticizers should be there for IR to get motivated (I will be shocked if he is not already). May be BAD is good sometimes to get the BEST out of a person.
ORALUKKU ORU PAKKAM THAAN IDI, MATHALATHUKKU RENDU PAKKAMUM IDI, ANAL GADATHUKKU ELLA PAKKAMUM IDI
MATHALAM IR RASIGARKAL, ANAL IR GADAM ELLA PAKKAMUM IDI VAANGARAR, It is such a disgrace to the phenomenon and genius.
ONCE AGAIN congrats in starting a nice thread.
- From: Isai (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Mon Aug 26 15:45:55 EDT 2002
You are right. He doesn't have enough scope in movies to come out with the best. If i were Illayraja i would have retired by 1996 itslef and asked my sons to take over. IR has reached the saturation point long time back. But only his passion for music keeps him going. One gets bored over a period. 800 movies spanning 4 decades. Still his songs are appreciated. I do not know the meaning of the term "Fresh tune". I think they are referring to "New Age" songs. He has achieved far beyond a normal human being can achieve. The greatest tribute to his songs are, people are still listening to it wherever they are France, U.K., Germany, USA, Canada.. He gave soulful music in all his movies. He revoultionized the BGM concept in movies, something even Current crop of MDs have no clue about. IR is always associated with his BGM not to forget his great songs. I am never bored with his music. He always give his best no matter who act in it.
1) The humming by SJ before the start of the song
"Raasave unna nambi" from Mudhal Mariyadhai
2) Starting of the song "Oru Raagam" from Ananda Raagam
3) Malayil yaro song from Chatriyan. It soothes our mind...
I can go on and on.. only his songs are composed in such a way that the voice of the singers come from a place nobody dares to go. The sheer impact he could have on TFM fans is unmatched and unparalleled.
- From: Fliflo (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Mon Aug 26 15:50:28 EDT 2002
"If i were Illayraja i would have retired by 1996 itslef and asked my sons to take over"
Ippidi gunda thooki podareengale. Nalla vela neenga real IR illa. Thank God!! :)))
- From: Fliflo (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Mon Aug 26 15:55:33 EDT 2002
Isai, we ought not to loose some mesmerising albums like Bharati, Azhagi, Kasi and many upcoming ones!!
- From: Isai (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Mon Aug 26 16:09:16 EDT 2002
Well.. my point was IR is a genius he could extend his career something mere mortals like me cannot do. I always love his music. Be it 1976 or 2002 or 2015.. I Know he always gives the best. Long Live Raaja
- From: UV (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Mon Aug 26 16:16:58 EDT 2002
IR music genius and experimentation,creativity where in peak during the 80s.(I wish someone could remaster/digitize his classic songs of 80s into a DDD format)
And towards 90s and now he is just another composer. May be IR himself got tired of too much film movies ,and same formula song,and "Andha Madiri pattu venum Sir" request.
- From: kiru (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Mon Aug 26 18:36:11 EDT 2002
UV..IRs late 70s, 80s are better listened to in the record (LP) form. I am doing so now. I feel these recordings are better than the so-called modern day CD recordings. I say this, with the following criterion - captures real instrument sounds in all their natural acoustic glory.
Re: IR and film music. I think film music is popular music. Popular music needs to have different instruments/beats all the time. IR did these very well but he focussed more and more (as time goes) on classical aspect of music than just different beats and sounds. The shift also happened towards more and more modern sounding songs. The buying power was with this type of audience. Slowly, IR is not the most successful commercial MD anymore. Just my humble opinion.
(BTW, why do you think music has to be in DDD, two-channel stereo is more than sufficient. If you had said SACD or DVD-A, I would have agreed more. These new digital formats have much better resolution and will do justice to IR's recordings which required good resolution/separation of the various instruments)
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