Topic started by NOV (@ 18.104.22.168) on Tue May 19 07:27:43 EDT 1998.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Guys - I know with a title such as this, many people would come rushing in. I couldn't resist it. :-)))
Sivaji was recently interviewed by Filmfare magazine. I have only extracted parts relevant to TFM.
Your comments please!
Can you compare music of yesteryears and now?
What music? Now all you have is rhythm. Thum, thum, thum is not music.
Are you talking about AR Rahman's music?
I am not talking about him in particular. But yes, he's the only one who has made a name for himself internationally. His name is a major advantage. People in the Gulf and Muscat talk about him. There are other good music directors around but they haven't made it to the international level.
Why couldn't MS Viswanathan get international recognition?
Because he was a Viswanathan. (Laughs). The name has a lot to do with it. So MS Viswanathan, Ilaiyaraja became famous only locally, because their names are South Indian.
I am Sivaji Ganesan. Many think I am a Maharashtrian. In Mumbai, even Bal Thackeray thinks I am a Maharashtrian. In Bangalore too, they have the same opinion. On one occasion every shooting was stopped in Mumbai, except mine. Because they felt I was Sivaji Rao! When the Sivaji statue in Mumbai was installed, I met half the expenses. When a dam collapsed in Maharashtra, I paid 11 lakhs to the then Chief Minister YB Chavan. So everybody there thinks I am a Maharashtrian. But I was born in Tanjore. What I'm trying to point out is that in the final analysis, the name counts.
- From: M. Diwakar (@ j8.brf62.jaring.my)
on: Tue May 19 09:20:29 EDT 1998
Shakespeare was wrong!! :-)
- From: Dev Mannemela (@ tide14.microsoft.com)
on: Tue May 19 12:49:26 EDT 1998
He is getting old, isn't he ?
- From: Udhaya (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Tue May 19 13:31:54 EDT 1998
Sivaji, the old fox, makes a damn good point. It is not a coincidence that Kamalahaasan changed his very south Indian name to Kamal Hassan to play up the Muslim flavor of Hassan in his name. The Northern states and the Middle East do provide a huge market and it is not inconceivable that a Muslim name is more recognizable world wide than a South Indian name.
- From: sree (@ orchid.cs.concordia.ca)
on: Tue May 19 13:57:48 EDT 1998
Shivaji is partly right partly wrong.The name may have promoted ARR's popularity in middle east countries but still his popularity in India came from his hard work.
The reason why MSV and IR were not famous all over the world is they decided to cater only to section of people.This does not mean that MSV and IR did not have that talent in them to compose music to attract the world.I still rate them as the pioneers in Tamil Film Music or to be more precise Indian Film Music.
- From: RV (@ avntfw.avanticorp.com)
on: Tue May 19 21:29:42 EDT 1998
Kamala Hassan was named Kamala Hassan by his father. He didnt change his name.
- From: Dev Mannemela (@ tide16.microsoft.com)
on: Tue May 19 22:15:14 EDT 1998
To imply that ARR is popular in Gulf (as if he isn't popular in other places; he is popular wherever there are people who listen to Indian music) is really petty minded.
MSV and IR aren't popular in the North simply because they haven't composed in North Indian films. You don't expect MSV to be popular in Orissa and Bengal, for example, do you ??
And seems like Sivaji has an axe to grind with the Hassans..
Anyway what was he trying to say with those reference to Maharashtra ?
"When the Sivaji statue in Mumbai was installed, I met half the expenses. When a dam collapsed in Maharashtra, I paid 11 lakhs to the then Chief Minister YB Chavan. So everybody there thinks I am a Maharashtrian. But I was born in Tanjore. What I'm trying to point out is that in the final analysis, the name counts. "
He sounds very confused. Is he trying to say he is popular in Maharashtra because he has a Maharashtrian sounding name ? Or he is just saying some people may think he is Maharashtrian bcos of his name ?
- From: rjay (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Wed May 20 04:36:05 EDT 1998
There is a wave of globalization everywhere. People are trying to expand their markets.
Mani Ratnam and Shankar have consciously
made films after their initial hits were appreciated
worldwide for their quality.
However it is not an easy thing to capture a
wide audience especially from different cultures.
Such a composer must offer somthing new as
well as continue to satisfy cultural expectations
of the audience. When Ilayaraja captured TFM
scene he had lot of fresh things to offer from his
Western Classical abilities but continued to
base his melodies on Tamil Folk structures.
The same compositions which we value may
not sell to Western audience because the
melodies are tuned to satisfy Tamil audience needs. they may even feel the interludes shallow, which we consider marvels of a genius.
Also in order to do so a composer adapts his style
to increase audience, like Rahman did when
he included qawalli style in Kannalane and
Hindustani in Rangeela. If a composer is
not capable of extending his idioms, he cant
produce hits across cultures.
I am not sure if Rahman's or any other
Film Composer's music is selling worldwide to
non-Indian audience. Music taste comes through exposure and training. We are more
comfortable hearing western classical and
heavy metal when Raja or Rahman gives it
rather than listening the originals. We want
like 20-30 of such new things and want the
rest of the 80% known things - things which
we know will move us emotionally.
a phenomenon like Ravi Shankar or Yanni happens.
But, thanks to japanese synth manufacturers,
we hear Japanese Shakuhachi sounds and
native american flute sounds in TFM, australian
didgeridoo in English POP, we hear Tabla
and Mohursing in New Age music!
I know I may have deviated from thread,
but then this thread itself is a deviation! It
added lot of fun. I liked every response.
- From: NOV (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Wed May 20 06:29:21 EDT 1998
Thanks guys for your responses.
Diwakar - Even roses come in attractive packages these days. :-))
rjay has a very good point. Is ARR really going international (as widely acclaimed) or is his music just restricted to the Indian audience worldwide? Maybe what we have is a situation where non-Tamils are enjoying his songs, but is there a situation where non-Indians are actually seeking out ARR's albums and buying them in a large scale? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think so.
- From: M. Diwakar (@ j11.brf46.jaring.my)
on: Wed May 20 07:46:50 EDT 1998
Right NOV. But we are talking about names and not the packaging. :)
Seriously, maybe Sivaji has a point. A name like, say, Muniyandi Vilas might be very popular in TamilNadu and is reputed for its Biriyani. But is it possible that saomeone even from one of the southern states will venture in?
If names did not matter so much, why MGR, Gemini,
Sowcar, Rajini ... the list can go on. The point is that packaging is vital in selling. AND names are now an integral part of packaging.
Incidentally, the term 'Pentium' was coined (invented?) by a company (not Intel) and Intel is supposed to have paid a more than handsome packet for it.
So, maybe Shakespeare was wrong. :)
- From: Ravy (@ eagle.vapower.com)
on: Wed May 20 11:24:34 EDT 1998
RV: Kamal's parents named him as Kamalahasan (just one name like most of the tamil names). But around Ek Duje ke liye time he split his name as Kamal Hasan so that he can have a last name.
- From: Nambi (@ s05.austin.ibm.com)
on: Wed May 20 11:55:40 EDT 1998
Sivaji is too good in acting, he is such a superb
actor and he's not an analyst, better to forget
the comments made by him.
Sivaji got recognition because of his performance
only not because of his name.
You know very well, today is the world of
marketing strategies, ARR's having the skills
to succeed the music market,so he did it.It's not
because of his name, because of his talent,
performance etc., (Don't think I'm deviating
from the thread, I think for the same reason
ie.,marketing, IR's Symphony is still in silence.)
So I feel Shakespeare is wrong!!!!
- From: Udhaya (@ 184.108.40.206)
on: Wed May 20 13:59:16 EDT 1998
Dev Mannemela, I don't appreciate being called petty minded. There was no malicious intention in what I said. Please read things carefully before you jump in with your knee-jerk reactions. And get your facts straight if you want to contest something. For your information, IR did do a number of Hindi movies, he just didn't take off as big as ARR. Now that could be due to his rural sound, south Indian name, or territorial bias in the Hindi film industry, none of us know the true reason, we can only speculate. I happen to believe that Kamalahassan became Kamal Hassan for very specific marketing reasons. You don't have to agree, but don't go sprouting names at me.
ARR is a wonderful MD, one of my favorites, I was merely pointing out the backing he gets from Muslims who want to celebrate one of their own whose musical vocabulary includes Arabian themes. There is nothing wrong with that. If I knew someone from my hometown who became famous, I will certainly side with him because he represents me. This is a discussion forum is it not? Let's discuss and debate without letting the testosterone blast through the roof.
- From: Ravi (@ envy.cs.umass.edu)
on: Wed May 20 14:21:01 EDT 1998
Udhaya: Cool down. It looks to me that Dev could have been calling Sivaji petty minded.
- From: Udhaya (@ 220.127.116.11)
on: Wed May 20 14:35:53 EDT 1998
I hope so, Ravi. Thanks man. I'm cool. I'm civil.
- From: Dev Mannemela (@ tide27.microsoft.com)
on: Wed May 20 21:30:04 EDT 1998
I wasn't calling you any thing. I was referring to Sivaji.
About IR's hindi movies, I know precisely how many movies he has done. He had done four hindi movies and one background-score only movie (Hatya) and I am not counting dubbed ones here.
- From: Sreeni (@ 18.104.22.168)
on: Thu May 21 14:10:39 EDT 1998
Since you two guys are perhaps the only ARR-fans to frequent this forum,I think the last thing you should be doing is getting all het up at each other.
And am I right in saying that the prose used in these parts has gotten a lot better in the past few weeks?Sorry if I sound condescending.
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