Line between Inspiration and Plagiarism
Topic started by kumar (@ 18.104.22.168) on Wed Jan 13 04:07:04 EST 1999.
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
Sometimes we say a MD did a peice based on another senior composer's work or a classic. But sometimes
we say this is a cheap copy. Where to draw the line between these two? (Quote examples.. but no names please..
for the first time lets have thread without bashing)
- From: bull (@ ramses.erlm.siemens.de)
on: Wed Jan 13 04:27:06 EST 1999
hmmm ... There is this old saying about studentship
Copy from one and it is plagiarism, copy from many and it is research
There is a corresponding war statement too, dialogue in the movie Cliffhanger "Kill one person and you are a murderer, kill a million and you are a conquerer"
So maybe one can do a change to it for music and say that :
Copy from a classic musician or from an ancient musician and it is inspiration, copy from a contemprory and it is plagiarism.
Or is it this way :
Take the basic melody and modify over it and use it in a different manner and it is inspiration, cut-and-paste and it is plagiarism.
NOTE: Ive been as general as one possibly can be!
- From: Shanmugam Murugappan (@ 22.214.171.124)
on: Wed Jan 13 16:37:08 EST 1999
This looks more reasonable
> Take the basic melody and modify over it and use > it in a different manner and it is inspiration, > cut-and-paste and it is plagiarism.
> Copy from a classic musician or from an ancient > musician and it is inspiration, copy from a > contemprory and it is plagiarism.
- From: kumar (@ 126.96.36.199)
on: Thu Jan 14 01:20:02 EST 1999
how about adaptation? Say a carnatic classical
rendered with a western touch or vice versa.
may be we can can say if a different touch,
or a style suggests its a inspiration.
on the other hand, if its the same or say if its made even worse, it plagiarism.
Some people claim they improved a song, i think
its never possible. A song can be adapted for a
different taste but never can be improved. Even by the same guy.
An how about giving the credit to the original?
does that make anything to be called as inspiration.
Many MDs have done this, but they still been accused.
Some MDs say its a coincedence, bcoz music is just
permutation of 7 notes. If thats what is music is all about, it wont be a art, it will be
combinatrics of sound.
- From: bull (@ ramses.erlm.siemens.de)
on: Thu Jan 14 02:36:33 EST 1999
Well kumar, coming to examples now. Lets take examples from the same movie nErukku nEr (I mean, lets accept it! Once on this topic, this is the first MD who comes to mind!)
So according to your adaptation principle,
- manam virumbudhE is adapted or inspired
whereas, Im sure there wont be many who argue that
- akilaa akilaa can be called anything but plagiarised.
- From: RajaG (@ cerberus5.fon.sprintcorp.com)
on: Thu Jan 14 15:04:53 EST 1999
Why do we think manam virumbudhE is an inspiration ? Is it because the pallavi is "manavyaala (carnatic)" and the interlude is from LSubramaniam's album (I forget the name). This goes back to if you copy from more than one place it is "research"
- From: nakkeeran (@ inet-fw5-o.oracle.com)
on: Thu Jan 14 16:25:31 EST 1999
there's a different name for "research(!)" in TFM. It's "experimentation!!!"
- From: Shankar (@ webgate0.mot.com)
on: Fri Jan 15 00:59:39 EST 1999
The theme of the song manam virumbudhE (which , a violin plays first and other instruments play it at diff parts of the song), is cut-&-paste from Surabhi's(featuring renuka shahane & siddarth kak) sawAl-jawAb's intro music.
- From: appavi (@ 188.8.131.52)
on: Fri Jan 15 14:16:09 EST 1999
Assume the MD likes a song/Ragam and would want to use it in one of his songs. Now if he doesn't put any effort to change it atall and copies it beat to beat, note to note, then it should be called plagarism. In this the MD is doing no justice to his Audience.
He considers his Audience as totally ignorant - (fools maybe) - there is always atleast a 1% Knowledgable audience.
But if he tries to improvise (sometimes the original is better than the derived one- but still the effort is important) on the song/Ragam he
hears and adds a few swaras here and there and/or changes the beat and so on and thus cheats his audience into believing it to be a new song,
IMHO this should be called Inspiration. Here the Audience many times would not be able to spot the original song immediately but after listening to it repatedly might spot it out. IMHO, The Knowledgable Audience in these cases instead of accusing him of plagarism marvel at his capacity to improvise on a song/ragam or present it in a totally different manner.
If the MD turns out more and more good songs and proves himself proficient in cheating his audience , the audience who marvelled turn into his fans.
We quite often come across many songs set in the same raga but the MD intelligently changes the speed or the beat in the song. The Interlude music and the accompanying music aswell play a major role in presenting a song. I would call all this inspiration.
I guess, a MD is considered to be versatile and skilled if he adopts more and more rare ragas
and present them beautifully and in a enjoyable way to his audience. I feel experience is a major
factor in this.
But then you need not bother all this but just sit back and enjoy a song as long as it appeals to your taste.
Your Opinions on my opinion are welcome.
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